F in the context of D major = blues?

[frankhond]

In the DVD "Tony Rice Masterclass", Tony plays "Blue Railroad Train". In the following discussion, he demonstrates and explains that "the F triad in the context of D major gives the blues ornamentation".

I know about the minor pentatonic, blues notes etc but never heard it phrased like this. Would that be an idea particular to the way Tony thinks, or is there a music theory concept like "the major triad a minor third above the root gives a blues ornamentation"? If so, can somebody explain it and where it comes from?

[mr. beaumont]

F triad gives you 5th, b7th, and m3 against D.

You can think of it any way you like, but that's what the notes are, and why it sounds "bluesy."

[Wyllys]

The blues is a low-down achin' heart disease, not an F major triad against a D...

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

F triad gives you 5th, b7th, and m3 against D.

You can think of it any way you like, but that's what the notes are, and why it sounds "bluesy."

This.


And, logically, the same 3 half-steps up triad (or sometimes just the root, a la John Lee Hooker) relationship applies for any key.
G against E, or C against A, etc.

[simpl man]

^ +1

It basically changes the context from D to Dm (making it sound "bluesy" or "sad") by substituting a minor 3rd and a flat 7th.

You might also know the relative minor to F is Dm (same notes in the two scales).

[Mandobart]

What makes the blues scale? The flatted third. F# is the third in the key of D. Play F instead of F# and now it is blues. Same thing when you play G vs G# in the key of E, or Eb vs E in the key of C. This stuff ain't rocket surgery.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

This stuff ain't rocket surgery.

Yes
Rocket science
Brain surgery

Not
Rocket surgery
Brain science



A+ for effort though.

[TomiPaldanius]

Originally Posted by frankhond

In the DVD "Tony Rice Masterclass", Tony plays "Blue Railroad Train". In the following discussion, he demonstrates and explains that "the F triad in the context of D major gives the blues ornamentation".

I know about the minor pentatonic, blues notes etc but never heard it phrased like this. Would that be an idea particular to the way Tony thinks, or is there a music theory concept like "the major triad a minor third above the root gives a blues ornamentation"? If so, can somebody explain it and where it comes from?

Good that you realized this. Just create major chords over minor pentatonic degrees and you learn the basic chord theory of 60s blues rock etc. Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze E - G - A, AC/DC TNT, Born To Be Wild... You also learn that 5th degree is much rarely used. 1-b3-4-b7 and all major chords. If you theorize it, you need to do like Tony Rice said.

This creates also the "problem" that many songs dont have clear minor/major tonality. Lot of music is played with straight chords and singing melody can have minor 3rd over chords major 3rd etc. Good example is for example Wanted Dead Or Alive by Bon Jovi. Guitar plays D major chord but Bon Jovi sings F note. This is why some notation is made "wrong" and don't sound right.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by TBman

Yes
Rocket science
Brain surgery

Not
Rocket surgery
Brain science



A+ for effort though.

Sorry, didn't intentionally go over your head. Malapropisms and mixed metaphors are my stock-in-trade. A lot of people don't get that kind of humor.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Sorry, didn't intentionally go over your head. Malapropisms and mixed metaphors are my stock-in-trade. A lot of people don't get that kind of humor.

Lol, funny though.