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  #16  
Old 01-27-2018, 03:32 PM
Song Writer Song Writer is offline
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Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
Well, I agree that “The Shape Of Water” is basically “The Creature From The Black Lagoon Gets A Girlfriend,” and as such it follows a fairly predictable path. But it’s well done. I enjoyed it, even though I wasn’t surprised by any of the plot points.

I suspect that one reason that so much of a fuss is being made over it by the Oscar people is that Guillermo del Toro’s earlier “Pan’s Labyrinth,” which is a genuine masterpiece, got stiffed entirely and didn’t get any of the Oscars it deserved.

So all the fuss being made over this lesser film is a way of redressing that earlier slight. It’s the same karmic principle that got Al Pacino his Best Actor Oscar for the ridiculous “The Scent Of A Woman” instead of for his performances in “Serpico” or “Dog Day Afternoon,” when he should have won but didn’t.

That’s how I see it, anyway.


whm
Yes, Wade, I think you are right on all counts. I enjoyed The Shape of Water. I thought it was beautifully done...the story line just deja vued me in so many ways.
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2018, 04:00 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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After ManyMartinMan wrote that "The Shape Of Water" is wildly original, Somg Writer replied:

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So wildly original that its being sued for plagarism. So wildly original that if you took away the humor in Splash you'd have The Shape Of Water right down to molting scales in the bathroom and the evil scientist turned good.

https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...ations-w515938
Well, Steven Spielberg got sued for plagiarism for "E.T.," and J.K. Rowling got sued for the Harry Potter books. Simply being sued is not proof that any deliberate plagiarism took place. Guillermo del Toro was a five year old growing up in Mexico City when the play he's accused of plagiarizing, "Let Me Hear You Whisper," ran on Broadway. Since it wasn't a huge hit or subsequently turned into a popular movie, it's hard to argue that it made any substantial or lasting impression on the culture. I know I never heard of it prior to these allegations.

I suspect what will happen is that the estate of the playwright Paul Zindel will sue the studio and/or del Toro for millions, a counteroffer in the low 5 figures will be made, and a settlement in the low 6 figures will be accepted, along with a nondisclosure agreement.

The problem for Zindel's estate in proving conscious, deliberate plagiarism is that there are many, MANY plots that get reused over and over again. The similarities between his long-forgotten play and this movie are kind of inevitable, really, given that both the play and this movie are really just retellings of "The Beauty and Beast" with an aquatic twist.

The Broadway musical and subsequent movie of "West Side Story" is nothing more than a 1950's take on "Romeo and Juliet." Then there's "The Lost Patrol," an early John Ford film where members of a doomed British Army patrol in the desert get picked off one by one. How many action flicks and horror movies follow that structure? Most of the horror movies, that's for certain.

So while I agree that "The Shape Of Water's" plot is not original, what's important is how the story is told. "The Shape Of Water" is nothing more than a "The Beauty and Beast" variant, as is "Let Me Hear You Whisper." Perhaps the estate of Gabrielle-Suzanne de Villeneuve, who wrote the first published version of the story in 1740, could sue del Toro, Zindel and Walt Disney for plagiarism!

But the original "Beauty and Beast" story she wrote was itself drawn from spoken folklore that stretches back centuries, perhaps farther. It seems to be one of those archetypal narratives that every culture has a version.

So I don't claim that the story told in "The Shape Of Water" is totally original, because obviously it isn't. But to claim that it was stolen from a specific 1969 Broadway play is to ignore that there are myriad versions of the same story available in the culture at all times.

My understanding is that the origin of "The Shape Of Water" is that del Toro saw "The Creature From The Black Lagoon" on television when he was a kid, and fell in love with the idea of the creature and the female lead becoming a romantic couple. Evidently he drew pictures of them holding hands, getting ice cream cones, dancing and so forth.

So it's an idea he's had for a long, long time. If anyone should get credit for the narrative for "Water," it probably ought to be the folks who wrote the screenplay for "The Creature From The Black Lagoon." Because that movie was the direct inspiration for del Toro's movie, not Zindel's play.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2018, 04:46 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Yes, Wade, I think you are right on all counts. I enjoyed The Shape of Water. I thought it was beautifully done...the story line just deja vued me in so many ways.
Yeah, it's absolutely a retelling of a time-worn story. I guess you were writing your brief response while I was working on my considerably longer response above!


whm

PS: I mentioned "West Side Story" in that post, only to learn since I posted that THAT is getting remade, as well, this time by Steven Spielberg:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/m...e=sectionfront
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2018, 05:17 PM
Earwitness Earwitness is offline
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[IMG][/IMG]

I saw this monument in Charleston SC a couple of summers ago and took this for you. Only thought of it now.
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  #20  
Old 01-27-2018, 05:36 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Earwitness View Post
[IMG][/IMG]

I saw this monument in Charleston SC a couple of summers ago and took this for you. Only thought of it now.
I'm not directly descended from Gen. Wade Hampton; my direct ancestor and namesake was a cousin of his who - alone in his family - was a Unionist and fought in the Union Army. But I've seen the stone monument you've shown us above, and have spent a lot of time in Charleston, where my mother was from.

There's also a giant mural in the Citadel library of Wade Hampton leading Citadel cadets into battle, and when I was a cadet there I did quite a few extra pushups because of it! I guess during that battle the cadets got shot up pretty badly, while Hampton himself escaped without so much as a singed whisker...at least that's what the upperclassmen giving me the pushups told me.


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  #21  
Old 02-19-2018, 02:57 PM
penname penname is offline
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I finally got to watch this movie (bought it on iTunes) and loved it. But I am surprised nobody mentioned the outstanding song played at the end. To my ear the singer sounded like Iris Demint but it turns out it was Amy Annelle’s cover of Townes Van Zandt’s “Buckskin Stallion Blues”.

Thanks to to OP for posting about this movie. Probably would have never given this one a try otherwise.
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  #22  
Old 02-19-2018, 03:05 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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I'm glad you liked it.


whm
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  #23  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:57 PM
godfreydaniel godfreydaniel is offline
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Great movie. My wife and I saw it yesterday. Frances McDormand and Woody Harrelson were great, but we were both knocked out by Sam Rockwell’s performance.
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  #24  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:18 PM
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Think it hits On Demand this week or next.
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  #25  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:56 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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I know it was one of the options for the in-flight entertainment when I took a long flight on Delta Airlines on Sunday. I think Amazon Prime has it, too.


whm
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