ToneDexter with LB-6 vs. K&K; with sound clips

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Lapo

I really love the clarity and presence of the dexterized lb6 compared to the K&K. Though the tonal hit and pain of installation makes me a little weary. Can anyone comment on how other UST's, particularly the PUTW, compare to the Lb6 in terms of clarity and presence. Thanks!

I've installed LB6 in two guitars and my luthier and I did not perceive a change in tone but YMMV. I'm sure there are users who would agree with me and others, like LJGuitar, have said their guitars tone improved when they replaced their LB6 with a K&K. I believe this is hard to quantify as some people (such as myself) just the LB6 passively and on its own while others have it as a part of the Baggs Dual Source, which is a lot of junk in your guitar and will undeniably affect tone. Personally, I think a replacement saddle is less likely to alter your tone than placing a piezo in-between the saddle and the bridge, obstructing transfer of energy. But, again, that depends on the pickup material and the guitar. However, many have purported a loss of ton after installing a UST.

Regarding tone, the PUTW pickups are film-based piezos and have a different tonal quality than a crystal based unit. Compared to the LB6, the PUTW models are more "natural" sounding but also lower output and prone to feedback. I've heard clips of their UST and it sounds nice but definitely works best when blended with their #27 or #54 SBT. I have their #54 and it sounds boomy and requires a lot of gain but is a good pickup. I haven't tried their UST but the clips I've heard it appears more natural than the LB6 but it doesn't have the LBs output of feedback resistance. The LB6 is also pretty ballsy sounding with a solid bass and mid-range without a harsh treble-end.

Personally, I prefer the LB6 because it works. I don't have to worry about feedback or bad tone or batteries and it'll work in any situation. I've used it with amps and preamps in large halls and outside and just this past week I played an open mic where they handed me an instrument line that went straight to the board and it worked and sounded nice. For the reasons listed, I prefer it over other pickups; including the K&K & PUTW, but it depends on what you need. However, it is toneful and very practical.

[guitaniac]

FWIW, the I/O UST's output was nearly as hot as the Pure Mini's during the time when I had both pickups in the same guitar. Of course, the strength of a UST signal is somewhat dependent on mechanical factors like the height of the saddle and the angle of the strings across the saddle. In any event, the I/O UST's output signal is considerably stronger than the signals from the PUTW SBTs - #27 & #54 (pair of shorter SBTs).

Regarding the PUTW SBTs, I personally had the best results with using the #27 directly under the saddle. All I needed was a modest mid cut for a balanced tone. The drawbacks of the #27, for my needs and taste, were the increased feedback susceptibility (as compared to a UST) and a bit of that in-the-well sound which is common with SBTs.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

FWIW, the I/O UST's output was nearly as hot as the Pure Mini's during the time when I had both pickups in the same guitar. Of course, the strength of a UST signal is somewhat dependent on mechanical factors like the height of the saddle and the angle of the strings across the saddle. In any event, the I/O UST's output signal is considerably stronger than the signals from the PUTW SBTs - #27 & #54 (pair of shorter SBTs).

Regarding the PUTW SBTs, I personally had the best results with using the #27 directly under the saddle. All I needed was a modest mid cut for a balanced tone. The drawbacks of the #27, for my needs and taste, were the increased feedback susceptibility (as compared to a UST) and a bit of that in-the-well sound which is common with SBTs.

PUTW is really nice stuff and I think their SBTs are more "mic-like" than others. Even though it's a piezo film on the bridgeplate, it detects taps all over the guitar's body. It's truly impressive and I think, probably, the most non-invasive and natural sounding passive option out there. However, I do find the require a pretty powerful preamp and a soundhole is recommendable. Due to their sensitivity and low-output I use the LB6 but I would probably use PUTW otherwise. The Duo & Trio systems are especially flexible and help reduce that "in a cave" sound that you get with most SBTs.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

PUTW is really nice stuff and I think their SBTs are more "mic-like" than others. Even though it's a piezo film on the bridgeplate, it detects taps all over the guitar's body. It's truly impressive and I think, probably, the most non-invasive and natural sounding passive option out there. However, I do find the require a pretty powerful preamp and a soundhole is recommendable. Due to their sensitivity and low-output I use the LB6 but I would probably use PUTW otherwise. The Duo & Trio systems are especially flexible and help reduce that "in a cave" sound that you get with most SBTs.

I've used the passively wired PUTW "Dynamic Duos" (UST wired in parallel with SBT) in two or three guitars. They did indeed sound good, and I definitely admire the ingenuity of PUTW pickup designer David Enke. I have to observe, though, that blending the PUTW I/O UST with the iRig Acoustic Stage has given me the best straight-from-pickup sound that I've achieved to date. I'm not using it much on stage because its rather messy (wires hanging everywhere) and the output is rather low (sometimes problematic in a plug'n'play scenario). I'm finding it very convenient and effective for home recording, however.

That said, I strongly suspect that the I/O UST/ToneDexter combo would be a better solution for gigging, and perhaps a better solution for home recording as well. At the very least, the I/O UST/ToneDexter combo would provide a hotter signal, be less messy and be less feedback prone than the I/O UST/iRig Acoustic Stage combo.

[Lapo]

Great Info guys! This is a great forum! Good to hear that the LB6 isn't too impactful on the tone. To me, whatever pickup I get, the ToneDexter is a no brainer. It changes the game whereas before id get the Putw hands down, now the question of vividness and clarity starts becoming more important to me as the Tonedexter will fill in the naturalness. Guitaniac, can you comment on how the 2 compare in terms of affecting acoustic tone and on matters of presence, clarity and punch. On a slight tangent, my brother is friends with David Enke and apparantly he has statred a new company called Open to Source Sensors,
https://opentosourcesensors.com, wheras PUTW is run by his ex- wife. The new pickups are said to be his best yet. When I get my tondexter it will be going through my interestingly aquired Daedalus W803s,(story for another thread), so every little difference will be heard.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Lapo

Great Info guys! This is a great forum! Good to hear that the LB6 isn't too impactful on the tone. To me, whatever pickup I get, the ToneDexter is a no brainer. It changes the game whereas before id get the Putw hands down, now the question of vividness and clarity starts becoming more important to me as the Tonedexter will fill in the naturalness. Guitaniac, can you comment on how the 2 compare in terms of affecting acoustic tone and on matters of presence, clarity and punch. On a slight tangent, my brother is friends with David Enke and apparantly he has statred a new company called Open to Source Sensors,
https://opentosourcesensors.com, wheras PUTW is run by his ex- wife. The new pickups are said to be his best yet. When I get my tondexter it will be going through my interestingly aquired Daedalus W803s,(story for another thread), so every little difference will be heard.

I was unaware that the Enkes had divorced. Thanks for the update and the new link.

While the I/O UST is very thin, its kevlar jacket is soft and flexible, so I suspect it cushions the saddle (and compromises acoustic tone) to some degree.

As for the LB6, I doubt that its saddle material is ideal for the best acoustic tone. I seem to recall, however, that LB6s which are imbedded in a bone saddle can be ordered from forum member Bob Colossi (sp?).

With regards to amplified tone, I've found the I/O UST to be more articulate and detailed than the LB6. It also picks up more top resonance than the LB6.

Its anybody's guess as to what extent ToneDexter will negate the tonal differences between the two pickups. ToneDexter may well be a "great equalizer", with respect to tone. On the other hand, it seems likely that ToneDexter won't change the fact that the LB6 is less vulnerable to feedback.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

I was unaware that the Enkes had divorced. Thanks for the update and the new link.

While the I/O UST is very thin, its kevlar jacket is soft and flexible, so I suspect it cushions the saddle (and compromises acoustic tone) to some degree.

As for the LB6, I doubt that its saddle material is ideal for the best acoustic tone. I seem to recall, however, that LB6s which are imbedded in a bone saddle can be ordered from forum member Bob Colossi (sp?).

With regards to amplified tone, I've found the I/O UST to be more articulate and detailed than the LB6. It also picks up more top resonance than the LB6.

Its anybody's guess as to what extent ToneDexter will negate the tonal differences between the two pickups. ToneDexter may well be a "great equalizer", with respect to tone. On the other hand, it seems likely that ToneDexter won't change the fact that the LB6 is less vulnerable to feedback.

It all depends on what you need as a guitarist. Some people want the "truest, most natural tone possible" and others want something that works. I love PUTW and the LB6. I'd like to try Dazzo as well but the problem I find is that, when playing live, I want as little in my guitar as possible and I want the most dependable system possible. I don't believe my audience is going to perceive the difference between the a PUTW UST, the LB6, a Dazzo, nor do they care. As long as it sounds "good" they'll be happy. For live performances, I choose a quality sound from a dependable pickup over the "truest" tone possible. It's all about what you need and want. To guitaniac's point, Tonedexter will probably be the great equalizer.