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  #1  
Old 12-14-2003, 05:38 PM
cocobolo_guy cocobolo_guy is offline
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Question Nashville number system

Could some of our TGF`ERS enlighten us all by explaining the N# system and give us an example or two of the method.Thanks CG
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Old 12-14-2003, 07:05 PM
Yoda Yoda is offline
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It's just a shorthand way for the studio players to remember what to play when, instead of writing down chord names, Frinstance, if you're going to be playing something in the Key of C, you'd begin by knowing what chords are part of the C scale, namely C - Dm - Em - F - G - Am - Bdim7 - C. You begin counting at 1, beginning with C, so

C= I
Dm = ii
Em = iii
F = IV
G= V
Am = vi
Bdim7 = vii

They're always written that way, in roman numerals, with the I, IV and V written in caps, and the ii, iii, vi, and vii written in lower case. I dunno why...

It also helps if you're transposing, or want to use a capo and don't want to write out another whole chart.

Say frinstance your bud is playing a song in G with the chord progression
G - Am - C - D, you'd write the chart as I - ii - IV - V .

Now, you want to capo up three, so you can use that fancy lick you learned to do out of an E fingering. Remember, he's playing with his fingers in the G position and your capoed up three frets playing in an E position... all you have to do is count which are the chords equivalent to I - ii - IV and V in E, so you start counting with E as I, ii is F#min, IV is A and V is B

If you're playing your IV and he's playing his IV, your fingers are in different positions but you're playing the same thing tonally. Is that clear at all? Probably not, but that's how it works.

It's fun to look at a chart like this after a studio session, there are all sorts of other little squiggly things that mean 'come in early here' or 'retard this last part'.
But basically it's just a musucian's shorthand.

Yoda
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Old 12-14-2003, 07:36 PM
Tom S. Tom S. is offline
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Default Here's the book

The only book I know of is: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Also I use the same system writing in the chords to simplify complex worship songs and it works great.
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Old 12-14-2003, 08:42 PM
rhudson rhudson is offline
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I used to do quite a bit of session work, but never in Nashville. We used a number system very similar to what Yoda described, except we just wrote it out in arabic numbers, not the roman numerals. Also "m" for minors and we would also denote 5ths, 7ths, 9ths, etc. Any derivative of any chord would be noted beside the number. Always very simple, easy to read. 5/1 would be a 1 chord with a 5 bass, etc.
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Old 12-14-2003, 10:41 PM
Tom S. Tom S. is offline
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Default Roman numerals or not

In the Chas Williams book, he uses regular numbers 1,4,5 etc. Also he includes sample charts from several Nashville greats and all of them used regular numbers.
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Old 12-16-2003, 09:11 AM
jimklein jimklein is offline
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NNS=JSN (Just say no)

Unless you're a studio musician that works with people that change keys constantly, I see no use for using numbers as chord descriptions... I do however like the other measure markings & descriptions.

It's only good for rhythm guitarists & trying to get around copyright law.
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Old 12-16-2003, 11:13 PM
Tom S. Tom S. is offline
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Default I have found it useful

I use the NNS modified to use chords instead of numbers with the following advantages. 1. It condenses long pieces (7-10 pages) onto a single sheet. 2. If I don't know the song, it is easier to follow than finding the chords in the midst of complicated standard notation (also no page turning). 3. Unlike some of the other methods, it allows me to denote 1/8 notes and other rythym variations. So, although I don't need the numbers for key changing, the general structure has really helped me when I need to learn 8-10 new songs for a worship service.
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Old 12-16-2003, 11:36 PM
Ninjato Ninjato is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yoda
C= I
Dm = ii
Em = iii
F = IV
G= V
Am = vi
Bdim7 = vii

They're always written that way, in roman numerals, with the I, IV and V written in caps, and the ii, iii, vi, and vii written in lower case. I dunno why...

The reason the I, IV, V are in caps and the ii,iii,vi,vii are in lower case is because of their voicings.
the I,IV,V are MAJOR chord voicing and the ii,iii,vi are minor voicings. The vii is also in lower case since a diminished chord is even more "minor" than a minor chord. The vii is called the leading tone which leads back to the I.

Notice why the BLUES uses the I, IV, V progression.
Musically each # is given a name. (for your future reference)

I = Tonic
ii = Super Tonic
iii = Mediant
IV = Sub Dominant
V = Dominant
vi = Sub Mediant
vii = Leading Tone

So in a MAJOR key the progression is (following the I,ii,iii,IV,V,vi,vii rule):

MAJ – min – min – MAJ – MAJ – min – Dim
Ex: CMaj - Dmin - Emin - FMaj - GMaj - Amin - Bdim

When you add a 7th degree to the picture you get:

Maj7 – min7 – min7 – Maj7 – Dom7 – min7 – min7b5
Ex: CMaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 FMaj7 G7 Amin7 Bmin7b5

This changes if the song is done in a minor key. The progression changes to:

min – Dim – MAJ – min – min – MAJ – MAJ
Ex: Amin Bdim CMaj Dmin Emin FMaj GMaj
or
min7 – min7b5 – Maj7 – min7 – min7 – Maj7 – Dom7
Ex : Amin7 Bmin7b5 CMaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 FMaj7 G7

Last edited by Ninjato; 12-17-2003 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 12-17-2003, 11:03 AM
jimklein jimklein is offline
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JimK Expounds on his last thought...

My biggest beef with any system is that I like instruments to be at their best when playing. Like an orchestra, nobody wants all people to be playing melody all the time & no harmony & no varied rythms between the different instruments.

I had a worship leader (gone now) that forced true NNS on all members of the worship band. (Bass/Guitar/elect Guitar/Drums/Piano/Keyboard/Trumpet/Trombone/Flute) & thats what happend. Everyone just played chords or notes (mostly memorized since nobody wants to figure out what a 6m no3 is in the key of Ab while performing live onstage.)

Unfortunatly, no musuc notation works well for all instruments.

As a Rhythm guitarist, I really like the NNS notations with chord names & words instead of numbers, but that notation style only works well for a guitarist...

But, what almost works as well is give me the full score piano music 10 sheets with the chords above & have me memorize it & then I can tell what the other instruments are doing so I can find where I fit in musically.
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Old 12-17-2003, 11:13 AM
JohnZ JohnZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimklein
NNS=JSN (Just say no)

Unless you're a studio musician that works with people that change keys constantly, I see no use for using numbers as chord descriptions... I do however like the other measure markings & descriptions.

It's only good for rhythm guitarists & trying to get around copyright law.
Far as I know it came from country performers flashing hand signs behind their back to a house band that didn't have a clue as to where the song was going. As a kid in the early 50's I saw it hundreds if not a thousand times. The scetched out numerical charts went from radio to the studios well before my time.
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  #11  
Old 12-17-2003, 12:28 PM
cocobolo_guy cocobolo_guy is offline
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I have found this discussion to be most useful,Its helped me and others wondering about it,nice thread topic,lets hear some others chime in......
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Have Guitar,Will Play....Bobby Kiger
AGF (TGF) Member # 3954, Joined 28th March 2003

The Guitars:

2005 Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion 3

@ STOLEN @ 1980 Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion - Serial # 83010043
@ STOLEN @ 2002 814ce LTD - Serial # 20020930110

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

http://bobbyfromnc.blogspot.com/

John 3.16
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  #12  
Old 12-17-2003, 12:52 PM
rhudson rhudson is offline
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Simple system. Quick and easy to learn. Very useful.
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