Convert this one?

[taygull]

I've got a couple questions!

If I wanted to play this with "open chords" what would it convert to.

As well If I am a 2nd tenor, in open chords what key would be bes for this tune?


This is how it is on the album!


Capo- 9th Fret


I wished I was (G) smarter
Wished I was (D) stronger
I wished I (Em) loved jesus
The way the my (C) wife does

I wished it'd been (G) easier
Instead of any (D) longer
I wished I could've (Em) stood
Where you would've been (C) proud
That won't happen (G) now
That won't happen (D) now
There's a whole lot of (C) singing
That ain't (D) gonna be heard
Disap(Em)pearing every day
Without so (C) much as a word
Somehow (G)

[shane]

E B C#m A

[A1rh0pper]

Sounds...I mean looks...I mean sounds good to me.

[Ninjato]

You convert it yourself and learn a little bit from it rather than rely on others.

Remember that at the 12 fret, everything starts all over again. To put it in simpler terms, everything you do from the 1st fret to the 11 fret, is the same if you start at the 12 fret and keep moving up. Every fret is a 1/2 step.

So: make sure you see that between E & F and C & B there is not sharp/flat key.

C(B#) - C# - D - D# - E(Fb) - F(E#) - F# - G - G#- A - A# - B(Cb) - C(B#)

That is how the notes run. It is layed out in 1/2 steps. So the first chord is a G. Relative to where you capoed, if you moved 1 1/2 steps back toward the capo you would get an E.

Hope that helps when you need to transpose songs.

[swiss cheese]

This link could help you...

http://www.logue.net/xp/

Hope it helps

[Manzanita]

If the key it's played in capoed at the 9th fret is not good for you to sing it in, just keep playing it in the same chords but start moving the capo (preferably down).

[whiskeyjack]

Hi Taygull:

Different people mean different things when they say 'open chords'. Do you mean a chord in an open tuning or do you mean a basic triad or do you mean something else?

I'm no expert by any stretch but I think it's safe to say that if you're using a capo at the ninth fret you're one desperate dude!!((I say that in humour and certainly not to insult you.)) Intonation gets real hairy down there.

Let's see how mush theory I can recall?

The G fingering with the capo on the ninth is an E chord (with an inversion or two). As mentioned earlier, the twelvth fret is just like a second nut. Everything one fret higher than twelve is just like the first position. Don't go there with a capo, ok? It's a hazard to structural integrity

Your song appears to be in the key of E Major. Four sharps: F#, C#, G#, D#. So. As mentioned earlier too, your chords in the first & second positions translate to: E Major, B Major, C#minor and A Major. (These are chords built on the I, IV, V of the E Major scale with a relative minor on the VI added: C#minor.)

OK. My head hurts already. You're gonna' sing 2nd tenor??? Hmmmm. That's more like a baritone, right?? And you were probably capoing at the ninth to stay in tune?? with the other voices?? And it was too high?

What you could do, as suggested earlier, is keep moving the capo down the fret board playing the same G-D-Em-C thing and find the tonic (root of the scale) at each position. OR you could use a completely different progression one or two steps lower in the key of D or C.

Placing the capo on the third fret and playing chord fingerings A Major, E Major, F#minor and D Major will put you in the key of C. No sharps or flats. Move the capo up two frets to the second position marker and play the same chord fingerings you'll be in the key of D. Two sharps: F#, C#.

Hope this helps and doesn't hinder. There's several unknowns in your questions that make a response difficult for my feeble brain.

Hope things work out.

[Ninjato]

Originally posted by Whiskeyjack
Hi Taygull:

Different people mean different things when they say 'open chords'. Do you mean a chord in an open tuning or do you mean a basic triad or do you mean something else?

I'm no expert by any stretch but I think it's safe to say that if you're using a capo at the ninth fret you're one desperate dude!!((I say that in humour and certainly not to insult you.)) Intonation gets real hairy down there.

Let's see how mush theory I can recall?

The G fingering with the capo on the ninth is an E chord (with an inversion or two). As mentioned earlier, the twelvth fret is just like a second nut. Everything one fret higher than twelve is just like the first position. Don't go there with a capo, ok? It's a hazard to structural integrity

Your song appears to be in the key of E Major. Four sharps: F#, C#, G#, D#. So. As mentioned earlier too, your chords in the first & second positions translate to: E Major, B Major, C#minor and A Major. (These are chords built on the I, IV, V of the E Major scale with a relative minor on the VI added: C#minor.)

OK. My head hurts already. You're gonna' sing 2nd tenor??? Hmmmm. That's more like a baritone, right?? And you were probably capoing at the ninth to stay in tune?? with the other voices?? And it was too high?

What you could do, as suggested earlier, is keep moving the capo down the fret board playing the same G-D-Em-C thing and find the tonic (root of the scale) at each position. OR you could use a completely different progression one or two steps lower in the key of D or C.

Placing the capo on the third fret and playing chord fingerings A Major, E Major, F#minor and D Major will put you in the key of C. No sharps or flats. Move the capo up two frets to the second position marker and play the same chord fingerings you'll be in the key of D. Two sharps: F#, C#.

Hope this helps and doesn't hinder. There's several unknowns in your questions that make a response difficult for my feeble brain.

Hope things work out.

This is very correct approach but it depends from POV. In many ways, since the fretboard keep everything relative, #'s and b's aren't really a major concern, but if you are trying to look at it from a theoretical POV then it is explained. The other way is to actually not use a capo and just transpose the chords in your head and actually play those chords in their current "shapes".

If you look at James Taylor, most of his songs he uses a capo at the 2nd fret. I find that I can sing a lot easier too when I capo at the 2nd fret. My voice can stay in may range. When I don't capo, it seems I have to sing a little bit to high. I manage, but my voice doesn't last too long that way.

[taygull]

Thanks guys,

A lot of these suggestions helped (I knew some and didn't others). The reason it was played the way I listed it is that is how I got the music and that is how it sounded best when played with the CD.

I was hoping someone would help me better understand the conversion of playing something in the standard open tuning instead of using a capo.

I'll reread and digest these as my regular instructor has disappeared and I'm going back to my old one. (I liked the previous instructor best as we could spend more time together and this kinda stuff he explained very well).

Going back to my first instructor is good, it is just we have such a limited time it's hard to get all the answers. I spend so much time asking questions we don't get to work on stuff.

Plus we just started voice so I don't want to spend time on guitar as much; I knew I could get some answers here!

Thanks

[Ninjato]

Originally posted by taygull
Thanks guys,
I was hoping someone would help me better understand the conversion of playing something in the standard open tuning instead of using a capo.

Thanks

This is what WhiskeyJack was saying...are you using OPEN CHORDS or using OPEN TUNING? There is a big difference.

OPEN CHORDS are whatever chords that make use of the nut without the need to barre. There are MOVE-ABLE chords too but that takes into acct you are mutting the strings that don't belong there (jazz guitar make use of these exclusively over barre chords)...usually 4 strings are used. Minimalist jazz articulation makes use of the ROOT, 3rd, 5th, 7th degrees instead of fully strumming. Hard to explain but if you listen to Joe Pass, you'll hear what I mean...(I think).

OPEN TUNING is when the strings are re-tuned so that the unfretted 6 strings when strummed plays a particular chord (the chord it is re-tuned to) whether it be E, D, G...w/ open D and E being most popular. (tuning to E can get a little much for the neck so many tune to open D and use capo)

So in the case of open tuning (not fretting at all), if you are strumming an E chord, then if you capo at the 12 fret it is still an E chord..just one octave higher. Then we go back to each fret. Each fret is a 1/2 step.

So an open tuning in E would progress w/ just the capo only starting from the NUT would be:

E,F,F#,G,G#,A,A#,B,C,C#,D,D#,E
1,2,3 ,4 , 5 ,6, 7 ,8,9,10 ,11,12,13 fret

Beyond this it is a mystery to me....I have a hard enough time keeping track of the notes in standard tuning let alone shifting everything in my head.

[Jim Tozier]

OK, if you want to transpose without using a capo, and still be able to choose the key that works best for your voice, the easiest thing to do is look at the chord "numbers"--the realtionship of that chord to the key you're in.

The song you're looking at is in G, and that gives you this "chord-scale":

I--G
ii--Am
iii--Bm
IV--C
V--D
vi--Em
VII--F#7

So, the pattern for the first part is G--D--Em--C . . . or, in numbers, I--V--vi--IV. Now, all you need to do is use the same pattern of numbers to figure out the chords for any key. For example:

Key of C: I (C)--V (G)--vi (Am)--IV (F)
Key of D: I (D)--V (A)--vi (Bm)--IV (G)
Key of A: I (A)--V (E)--vi (F#m)--IV (D)
Key of E: I (E)--V (B)--vi (C#m)--IV (A)

Hope that helps . . .

[taygull]

Originally posted by Ninjato


This is what WhiskeyJack was saying...are you using OPEN CHORDS or using OPEN TUNING? There is a big difference.

OPEN CHORDS are whatever chords that make use of the nut without the need to barre.

Yes, I guess I said that wrong!

I want to use Open Chords not Open Tuning!

If I want to play along with the recording, and the above is how it is on the song (capo on the 9th, G being the first chord), then what is the easiest way to convert this to a different "phrasing" using open chords, not open tuning?

So, If I don't like playing the B or F#, Now maybe I would want to capo it at a different spot and use a more simple chord pattern such as the key of G since this is a much easier I, IV, V, vi switching from G to C to D and the Em what is the math or easiest way to figure this out?

Does that make any sense?

[Ninjato]

Originally posted by taygull


Yes, I guess I said that wrong!

I want to use Open Chords not Open Tuning!

If I want to play along with the recording, and the above is how it is on the song (capo on the 9th, G being the first chord), then what is the easiest way to convert this to a different "phrasing" using open chords, not open tuning?

So, If I don't like playing the B or F#, Now maybe I would want to capo it at a different spot and use a more simple chord pattern such as the key of G since this is a much easier I, IV, V, vi switching from G to C to D and the Em what is the math or easiest way to figure this out?

Does that make any sense?

I think we have a terminology issue going on here. Is it the G chord that is played capoed on the 9th fret or is it the open G "shape" being played w/ the guitar being capoed at the 9th fret acting as the NUT.

Jim Tozier layed it out best (I should have thought of it that way too as a music major...DUH...shame on me). That is the easiest way. Unfortunately, there is NO easier way. You are asking about an acquired skill that you may not be ready for yet in a theoretical sense, or maybe the fact that you are asking, you are now ready to learn a little theory.

May I suggest www.teoria.com for theory.

[Ninjato]

Originally posted by Jim Tozier

The song you're looking at is in G, and that gives you this "chord-scale":

I--G
ii--Am
iii--Bm
IV--C
V--D
vi--Em
VII--F#7

Wouldn't the 7th scale degree be a F#dim or F#min7b5?

[taygull]

Originally posted by Ninjato


I think we have a terminology issue going on here. Is it the G chord that is played capoed on the 9th fret or is it the open G "shape" being played w/ the guitar being capoed at the 9th fret acting as the NUT.

The way the song is int eh first message is the song is capoed at the 9th fret with the G being the G chord structure!

So that being said how do I figure out the chord shape by moving the capo down 1/2 step at a time? What would be the chord shape to play it (so it sounds good with the recording, not changing keys) as I move down the fingerboard?

does that make sense?

Sure I'm wanting to know so I can play this with different phrasing, but I am also trying to learn the "theory" behind playing this at different positions on the guitar but sounding the same.