Song needs something??

jpfeiff · #1 12-12-2008, 12:24 PM

Here's an original I've been working on. It just seems like it needs something more, but I can't figure out what. I want it to be rather sparse, but it seems a bit too sparse, maybe? Let me know what you think. What would you add--if anything??

And please don't tell me it needs a whole re-write! I'm not going there...

The Fog
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7142239

Bikerdoc · #2 12-12-2008, 06:52 PM

20 views and no comments?

Fine song. Fine lyrics. Fine guitar playing. Fine singing voice.

First off I have a difficulty explaining/describing the things I hear or don't hear. What I hear are two different songs. Voice (octave, key, whatever) and guitar seem to drift away from the other. Separately very nice. But I think you need to bring the voice octave up a bit. But I don't know if that's the best way to decribe it either. I just think there are two currents fighting for control.

FingerPlucked · #3 12-13-2008, 08:40 AM

Good song, but I think you might already be trying to force more in there than there should be. You might want to sing the verses by yourself and leave the harmonies just on the chorus.

Also, I like the way the break starts at the 2:00 mark, but then I think it's carried out too far with too much when the other voices kick in around 2:11, although it starts sounding good again at the 2:23 mark. My suggestion would be to shorten this segment. Leave it in for the contrast, but get rid of the 2:11 to 2:23 part (change chords as needed).

I'm only suggesting minor changes. I really like the song, your playing & the way you sing it. I think the song's good enough to be presented with a sparse arrangement, and that by doing it that way, you just help highlight the melody.

jpfeiff · #4 12-13-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikerdoc

20 views and no comments?

Fine song. Fine lyrics. Fine guitar playing. Fine singing voice.

First off I have a difficulty explaining/describing the things I hear or don't hear. What I hear are two different songs. Voice (octave, key, whatever) and guitar seem to drift away from the other. Separately very nice. But I think you need to bring the voice octave up a bit. But I don't know if that's the best way to decribe it either. I just think there are two currents fighting for control.

THanks for the listen and comments. I'll play around with the capo and see if I get tighter match...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

Good song, but I think you might already be trying to force more in there than there should be. You might want to sing the verses by yourself and leave the harmonies just on the chorus.

Also, I like the way the break starts at the 2:00 mark, but then I think it's carried out too far with too much when the other voices kick in around 2:11, although it starts sounding good again at the 2:23 mark. My suggestion would be to shorten this segment. Leave it in for the contrast, but get rid of the 2:11 to 2:23 part (change chords as needed).

I'm only suggesting minor changes. I really like the song, your playing & the way you sing it. I think the song's good enough to be presented with a sparse arrangement, and that by doing it that way, you just help highlight the melody.

THanks for the detailed listen--I really appreciate it. I think you may be onto something here--the whole "less is more" idea. I love singing harmony and have been accused of cluttering up songs with too much of it before. I also think my main issue with the song is during the break--just seems like something is lacking in there or not quite satisfying. I'll try what you suggest. Thanks again!

JimmyJam923 · #5 12-13-2008, 09:07 PM

Jim, great song, I like it very much. I agree with fingerplucked that the harmony is being overused I would drop that from the verse and only bring it in for the chorus, it would have more effect then. I like the break but agree that it may help to shorten it. great recording though, awesome sound!! thanks for posting.

Mr. Dave · #6 12-14-2008, 11:46 AM

I'm jealous. Beautiful song, beautiful guitar, beautiful singing, beautiful production. I mean it. It gives me a lot of ideas to play with and somethings to aspire too.

That said...
It's too beautiful. I have a "credibility" issue with the song. The piece is beautiful and precise and, ironically, for me the beauty, complexity and precision of the production seems to make me doubt that the singer actually spends much time blissfully drunk. It comes across more as an idea than an experience. (No, I am not encouraging you to become a raging alcoholic.)

Gawd, it breaks my heart to say this - all that beautiful work - the harmonies, the lush and swelling break (man I LOVE that stuff in its own right and you do it so well) - Take a deep breath and throw it all out. For this song, stick to solo voice and guitar. This song, your voice and your guitar work can (and, I think, need to) stand on their own.

jpfeiff · #7 12-14-2008, 05:57 PM

Thanks for the listens and kind words. As for the credibility issue, I'll spare you the actual backstory details and assume that you mean in the context of this song, the singer is not selling the idea of the song...not sure what I can do about that, but I appreciate the observation! And I plan to llisten to various "stripped down" mixes before settling on a final....

Frank Roberts · #8 12-14-2008, 06:30 PM

Jim,

Very nice. I liked it.

My thoughts, to respond to your question, are exactly what Jim Fay (FingerPlucked) said. He beat me to it! I must conclude he is a very perceptive and intelligent individual.

I think you've got something very tasteful there, and it can stand on its own even if it was a little more sparse than you think it is now. The lyrics sounded heartfelt but all the harmony parts detracted from that, somewhat. As you can see, Fingerplucked said it much better than I have.

BTW, I loved the guitar tone. Was it the L-0/L-00/L-1 you have pictured?

Mr. Dave · #9 12-14-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpfeiff

Thanks for the listens and kind words. As for the credibility issue, I'll spare you the actual backstory details and assume that you mean in the context of this song, the singer is not selling the idea of the song...not sure what I can do about that, but I appreciate the observation! And I plan to llisten to various "stripped down" mixes before settling on a final....

Definitely the context of the song. The production is not selling the idea of the song. Words and music are different ways of telling a story. For me, the story that the music production is telling doesn't hang together with the story that the words are telling. The lyrics tell me this is a guy who likes to keep to himself, wants to hide inside a nice fuzzy cocoon, and blunt the slings and arrows of life (i.e. relationships) with booze, and doesn't even want to be bothered by the urgings of his own muse to write a song, because he feels that whatever he says will come out wrong. To me, the music production that supports the lyric needs to be pretty spare.

Now, on the other hand, if the lyrics were telling me a story about a guy who is transported above it all in alcohol induced grandiosity - then you might give us a taste of what he hears in his head - bring on the Angel Choirs.

Forgive me if I am being heavy-handed. I like the song a lot, and I admire all the very cool things you do production-wise. When I listen beneath the layers of production I hear something from the heart and soul. In my opinion, humble or otherwise

, the story, your voice, and your guitar work are strong enough to stand on their own.

3rd_harmonic · #10 12-14-2008, 07:04 PM

Maybe a handclap introduced after a bit?

rmyAddison · #11 12-14-2008, 09:07 PM

OK, I think it's a pretty darn good song, very good "potential".

I listen through reference Adam Audio nearfield speakers and sub, makes a difference even with Youtube and Soundclick over cheap speakers. I like the guitar, playing and recording. I like your voice, I like your singing, I can't stand the effects used, sorry, to me they kill the song.

It sounds like your singing in a tunnel and the harmonies are well done but sound the same. Whatever echo, reverb, compression you're using it's way too much, and it doesn't work with the very nice "natural" acoustic guitar.

What I think this song need is "less": cut way down on the vocal processing (you have a nice voice you don't need it), use less harmony sections (more dramatic) and try a simpler and less effects re-mix.

I really think it's good but the over processing of the vocals needs to be dialed back in my opinion. I'll be the first to listen to a re-mix !!!

66strummer · #12 12-14-2008, 09:28 PM

I love it, Jim! There's something with the harmonies that needs to be fixed (less. suggestions others have mentioned)....But overall it's a great song. Nice job!

Ryan

jpfeiff · #13 12-15-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

OK, I think it's a pretty darn good song, very good "potential".

I listen through reference Adam Audio nearfield speakers and sub, makes a difference even with Youtube and Soundclick over cheap speakers. I like the guitar, playing and recording. I like your voice, I like your singing, I can't stand the effects used, sorry, to me they kill the song.

It sounds like your singing in a tunnel and the harmonies are well done but sound the same. Whatever echo, reverb, compression you're using it's way too much, and it doesn't work with the very nice "natural" acoustic guitar.

What I think this song need is "less": cut way down on the vocal processing (you have a nice voice you don't need it), use less harmony sections (more dramatic) and try a simpler and less effects re-mix.

I really think it's good but the over processing of the vocals needs to be dialed back in my opinion. I'll be the first to listen to a re-mix !!!

This is a song I've being working on in a bonafide studio for a CD I hope to release next year.....so I don't have access to the original tracks to try a re-mix right now. They are up at the studio which is 2 hours from where I live. Hope to get back in there after the first of the year. The vocal effect is something the engineer calls the "John Lennon" effect, and yea, it is supposed to sound like it's coming through a tunnel or a phone line.... I never trust my raw vocal and find I want to either double it or harmonize or throw an effect on, and I often get "dinged" for it when I post songs for review, so I guess I just gotta get more comfortable being vocally "naked" so to speak. I wil definitely experiment with some of your suggestions when I go back into the studio---thanks again for listening and for the encouragement!!

rmyAddison · #14 12-15-2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpfeiff

This is a song I've being working on in a bonafide studio for a CD I hope to release next year.....so I don't have access to the original tracks to try a re-mix right now. They are up at the studio which is 2 hours from where I live. Hope to get back in there after the first of the year. The vocal effect is something the engineer calls the "John Lennon" effect, and yea, it is supposed to sound like it's coming through a tunnel or a phone line.... I never trust my raw vocal and find I want to either double it or harmonize or throw an effect on, and I often get "dinged" for it when I post songs for review, so I guess I just gotta get more comfortable being vocally "naked" so to speak. I wil definitely experiment with some of your suggestions when I go back into the studio---thanks again for listening and for the encouragement!!

Glad you took it as constructive criticism, I really do like the song. Since you admit you "often get dinged" for too much effects then yes it's time as you also said to "trust your voice".

I played in bands for 40 years, probably never had the best voice, and now that I do solo acoustic originals I am stuck with "me" so I'm working really hard on technique. To me that's the other thing with over processing (and it is popular in some circles), it's a crutch and it masks problems rather than the artist working on his/her voice.

I like your voice, you don't need the processing and frankly it doesn't work against the very nice natural sound of the acoustic guitar, it's like two pieces from different song types spliced together. I know a dry-er vocal track will complement the acoustic guitar and make this song pull together beautifully.

Good luck, I hope you can get a re-mix, again I'll be the first to listen !!

FingerPlucked · #15 12-15-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpfeiff

This is a song I've being working on in a bonafide studio for a CD I hope to release next year.....so I don't have access to the original tracks to try a re-mix right now. They are up at the studio which is 2 hours from where I live. Hope to get back in there after the first of the year. The vocal effect is something the engineer calls the "John Lennon" effect, and yea, it is supposed to sound like it's coming through a tunnel or a phone line.... I never trust my raw vocal and find I want to either double it or harmonize or throw an effect on, ...

Since you're recording in a remote studio & have an engineer involved, I don't know how much this might apply, but . . .

Lots of singers don't like the sound of their own voice. I don't. When I first listen to myself on playback, it doesn't sound at all what I thought I sounded like. And when I first started recording and posting songs, I had a tendency to go a little heavy on the reverb to compensate. In fact, I remember "defending" one song to someone on another forum, telling him "...but I was going for that John Lennon sound."

It's not as bad now, because I record a little differently. Early on I'll record a vocal guide track into one of my small diaphragm mics with no effects applied. It doesn't sound very good, but it's good enough to help me keep track of where I am in a song as I fine tune the guitar part and any other parts I may be adding. Later, when I pull out the large diaphragm mic to do some serious vocal takes, I'm already used to hearing my vocals in the most unflattering circumstances. And at that point, it's easy to make them sound better. As a result, I don't feel the need to swamp my vocals in effects.

Hopefully that makes sense. If you can, try it.