Composite Acoustics Pricing?

[gerardo1000]

I do not represent Emerald, but with all respect, why the price of the X7 is "moot" if it is still officially set at $995.00 included shipping to the US ?
Also, It is arguable that the X7 is not in the same league of the Cargo tonally. They sound different, but for me, for example, the Cargo sounds a bit muddy while the X7 sounds clear and pleasant. Other players think the opposite, of course. The ancient Romans said (in Latin) : De gustibus no est disputandum" which can be translated, approximately, into " There is no point in having a dispute based on individual taste" ! I mean all this in a positive fashion and with no intention to create an argument !

[ac]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

. . . . As noted, the price of the X7 is moot, as it is no longer available from US dealers as it was back in 2009.

It doesn't appear that not having US dealers is any big concern of Emerald's. They seems to be doing just fine by selling direct, with very satisfied customers according to the comments of posters on AGF. Outstanding products and service with reasonable prices. It's a good thing.

Doing business in today's world is constantly changing with advances in global communications and fast door to door shipping now so easily available.

Now and then, I order a number of different types of small items, e.g., for electronics, photography, etc., directly from China. No middle man. It's shipped from a factory to my door, sometimes in a weeks time. (I'm not even sure I know where to find a local dealer for such items.)

Who knows if or when other CF builders might just someday follow suit and begin selling direct themselves? Anything's possible. I'm sure they're also watching and taking close note of Emerald's progress.

In the end, it's just a matter of what business model suits each company best. That's a decision solely up to them, of course.

[tbeltrans]

The cool thing about having all this stuff shipped directly to our doors is that every day is Christmas (sorry...Holiday). The downside is that eventually we run out of room. I suppose the more enterprising people among us will rent storage space. Let the good times roll.

Tony

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

I do not represent Emerald, but with all respect, why the price of the X7 is "moot" if it is still officially set at $995.00 included shipping to the US ?

Hi Gerardo,

Yes, 995 without electronics, factory direct. That last part is important, because in fact Emerald is getting almost twice as much for an X7 now, than what they were charging their dealers back in 2009. By contrast, CA is getting only 30% more for the Cargo RAW now, than what they were getting back in 2009. My point was that everyone raised their prices.

And before you start thinking that being able to go factory direct is great for consumers, fact is, buying direct from Ireland without being able to try any of the guitars first is not a very attractive proposition for most customers here in the US. Having a US based dealer network would definitely add value to the Emerald line.

..Also, It is arguable that the X7 is not in the same league of the Cargo tonally...

What I wrote was back in 2009, the X7 was not in the same league tonally, and that is a fact. For the few years I stocked both models, not one person ever choose the X7 over the Cargo in my store. I'm told Emerald has made some changes to the X7 since then, so perhaps today things would be different. Course today any comparison would also have to include the Rainsong Parlor, the Kevin Michael Touring model, and the Journey OF660, some really fantastic guitars that weren't around back then.

I would prefer to have a showroom full of neat instruments to check out before I buy. Before MacNichol went of business I often recommended his shop as a field trip for anyone interested in a CF instrument. I make the same recommendation for L.A. guitars.

That said, there is one thing that Emerald has going for it that can't be found in most showrooms--extensive customization. I believe that that makes direct sales a viable business model, that and word-of-mouth regarding successful instruments.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by EvanB

I would prefer to have a showroom full of neat instruments to check out before I buy. Before MacNichol went of business I often recommended his shop as a field trip for anyone interested in a CF instrument. I make the same recommendation for L.A. guitars.

That said, there is one thing that Emerald has going for it that can't be found in most showrooms--extensive customization. I believe that that makes direct sales a viable business model, that and word-of-mouth regarding successful instruments.

I certainly don't know how Emerald's build processes allow such flexibility in customization compared to other CF builders, and at relatively reasonable cost, but it's a BIG advantage to the consumer for what are great guitars across their line-up. It'll be interesting how their road trip initiative goes as a marketing strategy. Although I love my Cargo, I sure would like to try an X7 and then decide which I prefer.

I think what Emerald is attempting to do with road trips is laudable. If I were Alistair I'd try to farm the trips out to Mr. Stone--he started the road trips in his shop and they were marvelous. In any event, the road trips offer a nice preview of factory direct sales.

[AZLiberty]

Similar products compete in the same market space.

In the smallish size carbon fiber guitar market you have the following:

Rainsong P12
Rainsong P14
Emerald X-7
Peavy/CA Cargo
Journey OF660

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Prices increase with time. We all understand that. Whether the Cargo can compete effectively with the recent price increase remains to be seen.

I personally think that either the P12 or X-7 is a better value proposition.

[Steve Christens]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

Similar products compete in the same market space.

In the smallish size carbon fiber guitar market you have the following:

Rainsong P12
Rainsong P14
Emerald X-7
Peavy/CA Cargo
Journey OF660

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Prices increase with time. We all understand that. Whether the Cargo can compete effectively with the recent price increase remains to be seen.

I personally think that either the P12 or X-7 is a better value proposition.

I would for sure add the Blackbird Rider to that list.

But one thing that frequently gets overlooked in these comparisons is scale length. If that matters to you, then these guitars are more different than you might expect. Cargo at 22.75", X7 at 24", Journey at 24.5", Rider at 24.5", P12 at 24.9", and P14 at 25.4". (I almost purchased a Cargo many years ago but found the scale length to be a bit cramped above the fifth fret.)

[pandaroo]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

Similar products compete in the same market space.

In the smallish size carbon fiber guitar market you have the following:

Rainsong P12
Rainsong P14
Emerald X-7
Peavy/CA Cargo
Journey OF660

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Prices increase with time. We all understand that. Whether the Cargo can compete effectively with the recent price increase remains to be seen.

I personally think that either the P12 or X-7 is a better value proposition.

And add the Kevin Michael into the mix

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by Steve Christens

I would for sure add the Blackbird Rider to that list.

I left off the Rider for the same reason I left off the X-5, I don't think of it competing in the same market space. Everything I listed is essentially an 0 size instrument, though as you mention scale length varies.

Of the ones I have played, I like the P12 better than the P14, both Rainsongs better than the X-7, and the Cargo or Journey last.

The Journey is very nicely made, but way to bright and trebbely/shril for my taste. However, if you want a CF guitar that disassembles, there is no competition.

[gerardo1000]

If you like the X7 better than the Cargo or the Journey, like me, and do not need electronics, then the X7 is really an outstanding value at & 995.00. Yes the Rainsong parlor is a fantastic option, but at the end it costs several hundred dollars more. Yes, with the direct sales of Emerald it could be a risk to order the guitar unseen from Ireland, but if you do not bond with it, it is easy to sell it to another buyer in the States with a minimal or no loss.
What really strikes me, especially for the price, is the accuracy of build of Emerald guitars. The fret board is so perfect that it is a work of art.

[pandaroo]

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

Yes, with the direct sales of Emerald it could be a risk to order the guitar unseen from Ireland, but if you do not bond with it, it is easy to sell it to another buyer in the States with a minimal or no loss.

Some of us who don't live in the US and trying to sell it is not going to be easy if we don't bond with it. Not being able to try a guitar in a local dealer may work for you but is a major hindrance to me because of the limited reselling option.

Back to the point, time will tell if CA is able to sustain at these prices.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by pandaroo

...Back to the point, time will tell if CA is able to sustain at these prices.

I spoke to one of CA's dealers at NAMM back in January, and he told me the guitars are selling just fine. Don't forget, it's been over six years since CA closed, and over five years since Peavey started building them again.