ES2 price

[Xtremca]

I was responding to another thread today and it dawned on me that Taylor charges $300 (street advertised price) for the ES2 in the 300 series and up, but only $100 on the GS Mini's. Unless the pricing on the Mini with ES is done to keep it from overlapping the 200 series, its quite the premium upcharge in the 300 on up. Maybe it's the labor cost difference between the El Cajon and Tecate??? Anyone else notice this?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Xtremca

I was responding to another thread today and it dawned on me that Taylor charges $300 (street advertised price) for the ES2 in the 300 series and up, but only $100 on the GS Mini's. Unless the pricing on the Mini with ES is done to keep it from overlapping the 200 series, its quite the premium upcharge in the 300 on up. Maybe it's the labor cost difference between the El Cajon and Tecate??? Anyone else notice this?

The 300 Series & up have the Expression System 2 (ES2) behind-the-saddle system, whereas the GS Mini-e models have the Expression System-T (ES-T), which is an under-saddle UST system. The ES2 is a more expensive system and, IMHO, sounds very good!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

The 300 Series & up have the Expression System 2 (ES2) behind-the-saddle system, whereas the GS Mini-e models have the Expression System-T (ES-T), which is an under-saddle UST system. The ES2 is a more expensive system and, IMHO, sounds very good!

Actually, it was just announced at NAMM that the GS Mini will now come with the ES2 system, at least for the Mahogany model. The up charge appears to only be $100.00. Also, the GS mini has had the original ES system for quite some time now. That ES-T system hasn't really been used for a bit. Even the 200 series have the ES2 system now.

I wonder the same thing though, Taylor is bad for charging a crazy amount ($300.00) for a pickup that they designed and make. For years, the original ES system was a good $300.00 added on, now we are seeing it put into the GS Mini and 150 12 string for incredibly low prices. I don't like when companies do that.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Actually, it was just announced at NAMM that the GS Mini will now come with the ES2 system, at least for the Mahogany model. The up charge appears to only be $100.00. Also, the GS mini has had the original ES system for quite some time now. That ES-T system hasn't really been used for a bit. Even the 200 series have the ES2 system now.

I wonder the same thing though, Taylor is bad for charging a crazy amount ($300.00) for a pickup that they designed and make. For years, the original ES system was a good $300.00 added on, now we are seeing it put into the GS Mini and 150 12 string for incredibly low prices. I don't like when companies do that.

You're correct--I missed that news, Thanks!

Well, IMHO, this will up the ante for those considering a small travel guitar with electronics, such as Taylor GS-Mini-e/ES2 vs. Martin Dreadnought Junior/Fishman Sonitone. For some, a perceived advantage may be the Martin Dreadnought Junior's solid Sapele back-and-sides however some may consider the layered back-and-sides of the GS Mini more desirable for a travel-type guitar. According to the video, the new GS Mini Mahogany/ES2 model should be in some stores by now. Things just keep getting better for guitarists!

[MikeBmusic]

It looks like Taylor bumped up their MSRP on the 300 series (at least with electronics) $100, not sure when this occurred - before or after the ES2 was introduced to this series.
On the 200 series, the ES2 is a $200 adder.

[OM4FRED]

Just picked up a GS Mini with the new ES2 last night. And there really was a big improvement compare to the old EST.

[Fusion01]

Has anyone successfully removes an ES2 system from a Taylor to use on another guitar? Not sure I've ever come across a thread in someone detailing the removal process.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Fusion01

Has anyone successfully removes an ES2 system from a Taylor to use on another guitar? Not sure I've ever come across a thread in someone detailing the removal process.

Not sure why anyone would remove the ES2 to use in another guitar? I doubt anyone has and even if they have, I don't think it's an easy thing to install the ES2. You have to drill into the bridge, it's more involved than a UST install for example.

[Xtremca]

Originally Posted by Fusion01

Has anyone successfully removes an ES2 system from a Taylor to use on another guitar? Not sure I've ever come across a thread in someone detailing the removal process.

The older ES1 system would have probably been easier as you had the body sensor and the p/u buried in the under the fretboard. If I recall, there was a switch to turn the fretboard sensor off and sill have the body sensor(s) active. So with that being said, you could simply pull the controls, body sensor(s) and the battery compartment, (leaving the neck p/u alone) and install into another guitar. But by the time you do that, you could add a pretty simple aftermarket electronics and get the same or better sound.

The new system although may be a bit more tricky aside from the 3 holes that would need to be drilled into the bridge. The ES2 system is pressure set against the saddle, so there must be some type of connection between the two taking place inside the bridge plate that can't be seen from either side of the top.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Xtremca

The older ES1 system would have probably been easier as you had the body sensor and the p/u buried in the under the fretboard. If I recall, there was a switch to turn the fretboard sensor off and sill have the body sensor(s) active. So with that being said, you could simply pull the controls, body sensor(s) and the battery compartment, (leaving the neck p/u alone) and install into another guitar. But by the time you do that, you could add a pretty simple aftermarket electronics and get the same or better sound.

The new system although may be a bit more tricky aside from the 3 holes that would need to be drilled into the bridge. The ES2 system is pressure set against the saddle, so there must be some type of connection between the two taking place inside the bridge plate that can't be seen from either side of the top.

Actually, IMHO, the problem with the ES1 versions is that you couldn't turn-off or control the amount of under-fretboard magnetic humbucker in the amplified tone as it was the foundation of the ES1 systems. It would've been nice if there would've been a blend control to mix in the amount of the magnetic under-fingerboard humbucker with the top sensor(s).

Regarding the ES2, the system's pickup is a housing that includes three cam-sensors on stalks that protrude through the bridge with the cam-action controlling the amount of pressure of each individual sensor against the bridge-saddle. A machinist, using a Bridgeport, could install the ES2 in other guitars if it was available as a stand-alone system.

[Xtremca]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Actually, IMHO, the problem with the ES1 versions is that you couldn't turn-off or control the amount of under-fretboard magnetic humbucker in the amplified tone as it was the foundation of the ES1 systems. It would've been nice if there would've been a blend control to mix in the amount of the magnetic under-fingerboard humbucker with the top sensor(s).

Regarding the ES2, the system's pickup is a housing that includes three cam-sensors on stalks that protrude through the bridge with the cam-action controlling the amount of pressure of each individual sensor against the bridge-saddle. A machinist, using a Bridgeport, could install the ES2 in other guitars if it was available as a stand-alone system.

That's right... The Pre-amp switch disabled the soundboard sensor rather than the neck. I was thinking it was the other way around.

[jonfields45]

In ES1, the neck pickup is in series with the soundboard sensor. Judging by how little difference (to my ear) switching off the soundboard sensor made, it seems unlikely that it could be used alone. It is more like a little sparkle (icing on the cake?) rather than a true second source.

I have lately been doing some critical listening to my T5z in ES1 mode and my friends GC8E ES1, and have decided I should be liking it more than my prejudices allow me. Having put another K&K in a guitar recently and working out how to get it to sound good without feeding back reminds me (again) that none of these systems are perfect and you have to compromise something.

ES2 is remarkably cheaper to manufacture than ES1 and sounds really good. I am still troubled by the extra holes in the bridge (another opportunity for prejudice to color what I hear). I wonder how close they could have gotten with the same preamp and the sensors located like a K&K (would need larger crystals or more gain in the preamp and likely some tweak to the "flat" EQ curve).