Anyone NOT like the Baggs Lyric?

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

In the right stage environment, it can work fine, but it's often the case (when we are running sound) that due to it's sensitivity, we have to keep their volume pretty low unless the player has a sound hole plug. And if the player doesn't have a preamp to help tweak the tone, we will pull out the ParaDI and go to work on it.

So in your opinion, this would not be a good stage pickup for an 855? My 6-string would be running through my Venue DI, so the 12 would go straight to the board. I only play it on maybe 20% of our tunes, and I already have issues with getting it to cut through the mix with its current Fishman. (Also I'd rather avoid buying another DI box if I could).

P.S. I should mention I do mostly strumming, some arpeggiated rhythm stuff. No flatpicking or fingerpicking on the 12-string.

[DrJamie]

Just replaced a Lyric with an Anthem SL. Installed in a small 3/4 size Gibson, the Lyric sounded small, boxy (not like the guitar). Due to the limited space, I replaced that with the SL, mic/UST combo, and like the sound so much more. I have a D-18V with a Fishman Ellipse Blend that I love. I also had a 2014 D-18 with the same Fishman, and loved that as well. I did not get along with the 2014 D-18 neck, so I found the 18V, and traded. Not recommending the Lyric.

[cary]

I had one in my D-18V Custom for a while, and I could tell the technology was promising, but I finally pulled it because I just couldn't dial in a tone that wasn't overly honky in the mid range.

I tried multiple preamps, and nothing would tame it well enough for what I wanted.

I've heard other guitars it sounded great in. I've always figured I'd look into the Lyric again once they've put out a couple more generations of the product. If Baggs can tame the honk they'll have a winner.

In the mean time, I'm happy just playing into a mic these days.

Good luck!

[reckhart]

I put one in a guitar I owned. I didn't like it. I sent it back and got a K&K, which I liked better. I didn't try it out in a live situation, though, just through my Loudbox Mini at home.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Dave L

Looking to install into a D18. I like the idea of something that doesn't use a piezo.
It gets great reviews but I would like to hear from those who didn't like it and why? What worked better for you?

I've tried the Lyric twice and it wasn't for me. I find the overall voice to have a little too much "midrange-honk" and the presence control sounded either too zingy or too dull - couldn't dial in a pleasing tone that worked for both bare fingerstyle and pick strumming. However, I've heard some YouTubes of the Lyric that sound great.

The Trance Audio Amulet M works better for me, and I swear by it.

Best of luck!

[dpeurach]

I have had a Lyric in a Taylor 524 for a couple of years.

After experimenting with a number of preamps, my experience is that combining the Lyric with a Baggs Session DI makes for a terrific combination.

Prior to the Session DI, I was smitten by the simplicity of the Lyric (just a mic) and with the non-invasive installation. However, I will be honest in saying that I alway found myself fiddling with preamps and EQ in an effort to get the sound where I wanted it.

The Session DI has changed all of that. It is very simple to use, but with a big payoff. The HPF cleans up the bottom end, and the Comp Eq cleans up the rest. I still do a small bit of additional eq-ing at the amp, but no more than I've ever done with any other set up to get things sounding just right on a given day.

Anyway, just another set of experiences to toss in the mix, alongside those of the other good folks who've shared their frustrations and successes. Hope it helps!

Don

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

So in your opinion, this would not be a good stage pickup for an 855? My 6-string would be running through my Venue DI, so the 12 would go straight to the board. I only play it on maybe 20% of our tunes, and I already have issues with getting it to cut through the mix with its current Fishman. (Also I'd rather avoid buying another DI box if I could).

P.S. I should mention I do mostly strumming, some arpeggiated rhythm stuff. No flatpicking or fingerpicking on the 12-string.

Hi bkharmony…

I have no clue.

I can tell you how K&K (soundboard) pickups respond in most guitars, and can predict how under saddle pickups respond (with preamps), and what magnetic pickups sound like most of the time in instruments through a PA and monitors. The two I cannot get a firm grip on are Lyrics and iBeam (Baggs). Both produce such different results every time I encounter them. Listen to the overall commentary of this thread.

It seems to me if you have enough time, patience and extra money to invest in a Lyric, you will probably get a good sound from it.

Personally, in my own guitars I find it easier to choose a path of minimal resistance rather than trying to adapt/shape something which might work. I have used complicated rigs (with rack mount ⅓ octave EQ, rack mount Compression, and rack mixers), and simple is far easier, quicker and sounds just as good.

For a 12 string guitar run straight to a PA I wonder if a higher quality magnetic pickup (think Baggs M1 or Anthem) might just be the thing. To cut through the mix, you probably need to have it sounding less than natural. The point of a Lyric is to have the guitar be as natural as possible.

You could cut the bass and boost the mids to match the highs and get it to cut through the mix. Cut the Bass Cut filter (HiPass filter) at 120-150hz.

Also, learning to play in the holes rather than attempting to strum on every beat of a song, or getting the band to thin out their play (or some of both) might clean it up in the mix (I'm not kidding).

[sbpark]

I find this thread interesting. I think if you post a thread asking for negative experiences, the people who will gravitate toward replying will be negative. If you post a thread asking for positive experiences people who agree with you will tend to post more.

Those who say that their Lyric sounds thin and weak it's either one of two things...you need to experiment with the pickup/mic placement inside the guitar and there are more than one place that people have found to work really well. It's either that, or your guitar just sounds thin and weak to begin with.

When I posted threads about my thoughts and impressions after instilling the lyric in my J45 it was almost unanimously positive replies in that thread.

I have the Lyric in three guitars...J45 Standard, D-28, 000-15M. I can say without hesitation that everyone of these guitars sounds almost identical amplified as they do unplugged. I think the lyric is fantastic, but I HATE UST's with a passion. As a disclaimer I've never used any of these guitars with a full rock band, so I cannot attest to how they work in that setting, but with just my guitar and myself singing going through an SWR California Blonde and some reverb I really have no complaints! Also, after tweaking the pot on the pickup, which only required the smallest adjustment on each guitar, my amp's EQ settings are fairly close to being flat, and don't experience having to do a lot of EQ'ing of the guitar to get a good sound like others have experienced in this thread.

As far as K&K's go I kind od think they are over-hyped and still sound similar to an UST, lack any real character and sound muddy and dull with no dynamics and require quite a bit of EQ to sound good. What drove me to the Lyric was the fact that I didn't have to alter how I played the guitar when it was plugged it, the differences with attack came through just like they do when playing unplugged, something I didn't experience with an UST.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Dave L

Looking to install into a D18. I like the idea of something that doesn't use a piezo.
It gets great reviews but I would like to hear from those who didn't like it and why? What worked better for you?

I've only tried the Baggs Lyric a few times and have not installed on in any of my guitars. So my experience is limited. But it did use on with my mini-PA (Pendulum/Bryston/Daedalus) and small acoustic amp (Jam 150) both of which I am quite familiar.

Here's what I found:

1) With adequate eq (three band parametric), the Lyric approaches the sound of an external condenser mic, never quite getting there but it certainly sounds and behaves better than an internal condenser mic.

2) The Lyric's feedback threshold is better than an internal mic, somewhat better than an external mic, but not as good as a SBT or UST.

3) Handling noise is about the same as an internal mic or SBT, but more than a UST or external mic.

4) The Lyric's behavior in terms of dynamics, sustain, frequency response and linearity was better than a SBT or UST but not quite as accurate as an external mic.

5) Contrary to many other folks' reports, I did not find the Lyric to be "weak" or "bass light". I found it to be an fairly accurate reproduction of the guitar in which it was installed if modest and targeted eq was applied to the signal..

Hope that helps.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by sbpark

I find this thread interesting. I think if you post a thread asking for negative experiences, the people who will gravitate toward replying will be negative. If you post a thread asking for positive experiences people who agree with you will tend to post more.

Those who say that their Lyric sounds thin and weak it's either one of two things...you need to experiment with the pickup/mic placement inside the guitar and there are more than one place that people have found to work really well. It's either that, or your guitar just sounds thin and weak to begin with.

When I posted threads about my thoughts and impressions after instilling the lyric in my J45 it was almost unanimously positive replies in that thread.

I have the Lyric in three guitars...J45 Standard, D-28, 000-15M. I can say without hesitation that everyone of these guitars sounds almost identical amplified as they do unplugged. I think the lyric is fantastic, but I HATE UST's with a passion. As a disclaimer I've never used any of these guitars with a full rock band, so I cannot attest to how they work in that setting, but with just my guitar and myself singing going through an SWR California Blonde and some reverb I really have no complaints! Also, after tweaking the pot on the pickup, which only required the smallest adjustment on each guitar, my amp's EQ settings are fairly close to being flat, and don't experience having to do a lot of EQ'ing of the guitar to get a good sound like others have experienced in this thread.

As far as K&K's go I kind od think they are over-hyped and still sound similar to an UST, lack any real character and sound muddy and dull with no dynamics and require quite a bit of EQ to sound good. What drove me to the Lyric was the fact that I didn't have to alter how I played the guitar when it was plugged it, the differences with attack came through just like they do when playing unplugged, something I didn't experience with an UST.

It's all subjective and we all like different things. I found the Lyric thin and weak but it was a very nice pickup…when I played it at home. For me though, it just lacks body and a fullness that I want with my plugged in tone. It doesn't lack bass, it just doesn't enhance it. It's been discussed here quite a bit.. we often think we want our guitar only louder but many of us have come to the conclusion that enhanced bass is needed. You obviously don't feel that way and that's great, but again it's all subjective.

I think making a statement about the placement being off or the guitar sounding weak or thin to begin with, is not all that helpful. It comes off as you trying to convince everyone that the Lyric is the best pickup available. It is for some, but not for everyone. That's why so many people use so many different pickups.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

I've only tried the Baggs Lyric a few times and have not installed on in any of my guitars. So my experience is limited. But it did use on with my mini-PA of which I am quite familiar.

Here's what I found:

1) With adequate eq (three band parametric), the Lyric approaches the sound of an external condenser mic, never quite getting there but it certainly sounds and behaves better than an internal condenser mic.

2) The Lyric's feedback threshold is better than an internal mic, somewhat better than an external mic, but not as good as a SBT or UST.

3) Handling noise is about the same as an internal mic or SBT, but more than a UST or external mic.

Hope that helps.

Oddly enough, I found the Lyric to have a better feedback threshold than a SBT and honestly it was close to a UST. I was playing in a noisy bar (300 people), with 15" monitors pointed at me and I couldn't get it to feedback. If I remember correctly, Baggs described the Lyric as being in between a SBT and UST in terms of the feedback threshold.

[lweb10]

I agree with the last sentence in sbpark's post:

"What drove me to the Lyric was the fact that I didn't have to alter how I played the guitar when it was plugged it, the differences with attack came through just like they do when playing unplugged, something I didn't experience with an UST."

I couldn't have put it better. Pretty much all my playing is fingerstyle and the Lyric picks up more nuance than any other I've tried. The guitar doesn't act like a temperamental electric, it just seems like its lovely acoustic self.

[Hotspur]

After going back and forth a bunch, I came to the conclusion that the Lyric was just trying to do a bit too much, and that the Anthem seems to give you all the advantages of the Lyric with more flexibility and better plug-and-play compatibility.

Because the Anthem also has a UST, even if it's only using it for part of the signal, the mic just has to do less, so it seems to me that the mic is more able to just do what the mic is really good at doing. With the Lyric, to compensate for the limitations, it seems like they have to process it more.

Over on the Larrivee forums there seems to be a consensus that the Lyric just doesn't work well in their L bodies. The processing, I suspect, has to make compromises that work better in some bodies than in others.

[midwinter]

I run a Lyric in my main guitar. I'm generally happy with it, although I agree with Petty1818 that it just doesn't have the oomph I hear in other pickups. I run it through some kind of preamp (either a Venue or a PADI), so that helps.

I run JJBs in all my other instruments. I've lately been considering replacing the Lyric with one, mostly so I can remove one battery from the rig and generally simplify things (and honestly, also, so I can leave my guitar plugged in but muted without draining battery).

Cheers

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi bkharmony…

I have no clue.

I can tell you how K&K (soundboard) pickups respond in most guitars, and can predict how under saddle pickups respond (with preamps), and what magnetic pickups sound like most of the time in instruments through a PA and monitors. The two I cannot get a firm grip on are Lyrics and iBeam (Baggs). Both produce such different results every time I encounter them. Listen to the overall commentary of this thread.

It seems to me if you have enough time, patience and extra money to invest in a Lyric, you will probably get a good sound from it.

Personally, in my own guitars I find it easier to choose a path of minimal resistance rather than trying to adapt/shape something which might work. I have used complicated rigs (with rack mount ⅓ octave EQ, rack mount Compression, and rack mixers), and simple is far easier, quicker and sounds just as good.

For a 12 string guitar run straight to a PA I wonder if a higher quality magnetic pickup (think Baggs M1 or Anthem) might just be the thing. To cut through the mix, you probably need to have it sounding less than natural. The point of a Lyric is to have the guitar be as natural as possible.

You could cut the bass and boost the mids to match the highs and get it to cut through the mix. Cut the Bass Cut filter (HiPass filter) at 120-150hz.

Also, learning to play in the holes rather than attempting to strum on every beat of a song, or getting the band to thin out their play (or some of both) might clean it up in the mix (I'm not kidding).

Thanks, Larry. I've had several K&Ks, an M1, and an iBeam (amongst others) so I'm familiar with them. I actually lean toward the D-TAR for my 6-strings (special recognition for the Highlander), but I'm not sure I want to install one in my 855. I've had three pickups in it, and I still haven't found what I'm looking for. I thought the Lyric might be my answer, but I'm starting to doubt that.

I usually do EQ toward the mids when the 12 is plugged in directly. I mean, it's fine. It's just not great.

And thanks for the suggestion about playing in holes and thinning out the band's playing. You would laugh a lot if you heard my band. It's...unique.