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  #1  
Old 02-24-2016, 03:50 AM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Default Magnetic soundhole pickup string height question/under top mounting

Hi all,

I was wondering how much of a difference the distance to the strings makes on a soundhole pickup. Obviously the pickups are designed to be mounted in the soundhole which means they are usually +/- almost the same distance from the strings every time.
I am designing, to build myself, a Godin Multiac/Taylor T5 inspired instrument which will not have a soundhole under the strings, I am currently planning to install a dual pickup system, a Barbera Soloist and then secondly to mount a magnetic soundhole pickup inside the instrument directly under the top. With a top thickness of (max) 3mm and leaving 1-2mm space for the top to vibrate, and accounting for the height of the pickup above a soundhole when mounted as originally designed, this means the pickup will be 7-8mm further away from the strings then designed to be.

Obviously this is not so far as to cause the pickup to not sense the string vibrations (i think), but will I just end up with much a lower output signal but similar sound? or will the sound itself be thinner (worse) as the pickup will not be sensing the string vibrations as much as well as being a lower signal output?

Has anyone else done this? or perhaps have experience with a SUPER high string action with magnetic pickups?

Any advice/information you can offer me in this regard is appreciated.

David
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2016, 05:56 AM
pbekkerh pbekkerh is offline
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You could have some custom pickup coils made. The people who make these coils will also have the knowledge to compensate for your build.
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Old 02-24-2016, 01:41 PM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Thats not a bad idea, however I've spent the last 2 hours looking around online and I haven't found anything or anyone who custom winds acoustic pickups.

So the next question is how much different are the acoustic magnetic pickups versus the electric guitar pickups?
Theoretically its the "same" device, but there must be something different, my electrics sound completely different to a mag soundhole pickup when run through the same systems.
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Old 02-24-2016, 03:31 PM
kurth83 kurth83 is offline
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The magnetic pickups on an electric guitar have adjustable height, on each side, so you can bias in favor of the upper or lower strings. Some pickups allow you to raise and lower individual strings. Closer to the string menas more volume basically, so the idea is to balance each string relative to the others.

If it was me, and it was a custom build, I would want adjustable height.

On the LR Baggs M80 for example, the pole for each string is adjustable in height, and they supply two taller poles for the top two strings giving even more height adjustment.
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:06 AM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurth83 View Post
If it was me, and it was a custom build, I would want adjustable height.

On the LR Baggs M80 for example, the pole for each string is adjustable in height, and they supply two taller poles for the top two strings giving even more height adjustment.
Actually due to the way I will be mounting it internally, I will have height adjustment on each side of the pickup, something you wouldn't actually be able to do when it it mounted on the soundhole.

I'm still concerned that the signal will be weak and that a weak signal will give me a weak sound, but I don't know if that is a correct assumption or not.
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Old 02-25-2016, 07:17 AM
Goat Mick Goat Mick is offline
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Mounting a mag pickup under the soundboard is going to give you a much weaker and probably thinner sound from the pickup because the pole pieces aren't going to be directly exposed to the strings to pickup vibrations. I think if I was considering a project like this I would go with transducers like a K&K.
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:17 PM
Spook Spook is offline
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My experience is certainly limited but I have tried using a couple of different kinds of magnetic pickups on oval hole archtops where the strings are significantly farther away from the mounting point than on a flat top.

Schertler AG6, which is a marvelous pickup btw, did not work even though it uses active circuits with a preamp for each pole position. It was pretty far from the strings though. Guessing it was maybe 18mm from the strings.

Sunrise pickup does work because it has adjustable poles. They are currently backed out something like 12mm on the bass side leaving about a 4mm gap to the string. Guessing.. if you like I can measure. Looks a bit odd but nobody is going to notice. I'm going to make some leather shims to jack the pickup up a little so I can lower the poles a bit when I get to it but I've been using the guitar with acoustic strings in this configuration for some time.

As you approach this bear in mind that most of these pickups are deep and heavy. For me made mounting on a pickguard impractical.

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Old 02-26-2016, 04:30 AM
emmsone emmsone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post
Sunrise pickup does work because it has adjustable poles. They are currently backed out something like 12mm on the bass side leaving about a 4mm gap to the string.

As you approach this bear in mind that most of these pickups are deep and heavy. For me made mounting on a pickguard impractical.
Hmm, sucks that it sounds like it the idea might not work in general.....
But with the sunrise, that's interesting, I had no idea the pole pieces extended so far, it does make me think maybe I could drill 6 pole piece holes in the top and extend the pole pieces up through it to get them closer to the strings.

Mounting won't be a problem, my plan is to extend 2 struts out from the neck block and mount the pickup on that.
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:09 AM
surdopickups surdopickups is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmsone View Post
Hi all,

I was wondering how much of a difference the distance to the strings makes on a soundhole pickup. Obviously the pickups are designed to be mounted in the soundhole which means they are usually +/- almost the same distance from the strings every time.
I am designing, to build myself, a Godin Multiac/Taylor T5 inspired instrument which will not have a soundhole under the strings, I am currently planning to install a dual pickup system, a Barbera Soloist and then secondly to mount a magnetic soundhole pickup inside the instrument directly under the top. With a top thickness of (max) 3mm and leaving 1-2mm space for the top to vibrate, and accounting for the height of the pickup above a soundhole when mounted as originally designed, this means the pickup will be 7-8mm further away from the strings then designed to be.

Obviously this is not so far as to cause the pickup to not sense the string vibrations (i think), but will I just end up with much a lower output signal but similar sound? or will the sound itself be thinner (worse) as the pickup will not be sensing the string vibrations as much as well as being a lower signal output?

Has anyone else done this? or perhaps have experience with a SUPER high string action with magnetic pickups?

Any advice/information you can offer me in this regard is appreciated.

David
there should be no problem to build a pickup tailored to your needs.
pickups with neodymium magnets can also be kept at a distance of 7 to 8 mm from the strings
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2016, 08:14 AM
surdopickups surdopickups is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmsone View Post
Hi all,

I was wondering how much of a difference the distance to the strings makes on a soundhole pickup. Obviously the pickups are designed to be mounted in the soundhole which means they are usually +/- almost the same distance from the strings every time.
I am designing, to build myself, a Godin Multiac/Taylor T5 inspired instrument which will not have a soundhole under the strings, I am currently planning to install a dual pickup system, a Barbera Soloist and then secondly to mount a magnetic soundhole pickup inside the instrument directly under the top. With a top thickness of (max) 3mm and leaving 1-2mm space for the top to vibrate, and accounting for the height of the pickup above a soundhole when mounted as originally designed, this means the pickup will be 7-8mm further away from the strings then designed to be.

Obviously this is not so far as to cause the pickup to not sense the string vibrations (i think), but will I just end up with much a lower output signal but similar sound? or will the sound itself be thinner (worse) as the pickup will not be sensing the string vibrations as much as well as being a lower signal output?

Has anyone else done this? or perhaps have experience with a SUPER high string action with magnetic pickups?

Any advice/information you can offer me in this regard is appreciated.

David
You might also be interested in magnetic pickups under the hole, type XLR output.
For a very original project.
http://surdopickups.blogspot.it/
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2016, 09:25 AM
curbucci curbucci is offline
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One would have to look into using pure nickel strings. The pickup will sense that alloy better than PB. I've tried a bunch of acoustic strings with that alloy (JP pure nickels, Martin Monel, DR Zebras) and the ones that worked best for me using non adjustable mag pickups (mainly early 80's Bill Lawrence FT 145HD) was GHS White Bronze. They seemed more balanced with the mags to me.
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