Two guitars/one vocalist - those who have tried many amps/sound solutions - advice?

markdub · #1 02-17-2016, 08:05 PM

My head is spinning after reading a ton of historical posts here. I'm hoping to get some advice from those of you who have a similar setup need after going through multiple amps or PA solutions to arrive at where you are now. My needs are 50% of the time just me, my guitar, and a mic, while another 50% there will be another guitar, and MAYBE occasionally another mic so that's more of a nice to have.
B-day coming up, and my wife is asking me what I want...no real limits here, but I don't want anything heavy. My only amplification experience is with electrics, and over time I've moved away from the larger/heavier amps in favor of a small combo that sounds great. It's an Alessandro cross-bred Mutt, and I'll never part with it.
My needs are mostly the same for an acoustic setup - I really don't want to lug anything more than 35-40 lbs. Transparency on guitar is always desired, but I'm probably slightly more biased on an acoustic setup to have something that sounds good on vocals. Most of my acoustic stuff is strumming - country and some rock/pop.
I keep looking at Carvin's AG300 and Fishman's SA220. I realize there are lots of options, but unfortunately cannot audition most of them.
I'll take all the advice/wisdom/etc. I can get!

lschwart · #2 02-17-2016, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markdub

My head is spinning after reading a ton of historical posts here. I'm hoping to get some advice from those of you who have a similar setup need after going through multiple amps or PA solutions to arrive at where you are now. My needs are 50% of the time just me, my guitar, and a mic, while another 50% there will be another guitar, and MAYBE occasionally another mic so that's more of a nice to have.
B-day coming up, and my wife is asking me what I want...no real limits here, but I don't want anything heavy. My only amplification experience is with electrics, and over time I've moved away from the larger/heavier amps in favor of a small combo that sounds great. It's an Alessandro cross-bred Mutt, and I'll never part with it.
My needs are mostly the same for an acoustic setup - I really don't want to lug anything more than 35-40 lbs. Transparency on guitar is always desired, but I'm probably slightly more biased on an acoustic setup to have something that sounds good on vocals. Most of my acoustic stuff is strumming - country and some rock/pop.
I keep looking at Carvin's AG300 and Fishman's SA220. I realize there are lots of options, but unfortunately cannot audition most of them.
I'll take all the advice/wisdom/etc. I can get!

Get yourself a good 10" powered PA speaker (RCF 310a or HD 10-A, Yamaha DXR10, QSC K10, etc.) and a small mixer like an A&H ZED10FX. Simple, light, and perfect for what you do. Get two speakers if you think you'll be playing venues that require the extra volume and coverage. A good acoustic combo amp is OK for very small gigs and rehearsals, and can be useful as a stage monitor, but I wouldn't rely on just that.

Louis

midwinter · #3 02-18-2016, 12:33 AM

^ Yup.

A powered speaker of some kind plus a little 8 channel mixer will do you just fine. The A&H is a great recommendation. I use a Yamaha MG10XU or a Mackie PROFX12 for all my jobs where I bring a PA.

dannyg1 · #4 02-18-2016, 12:54 AM

A Carvin stagemate S600 seems like it would be good for you. If money isnt a concern, one of the larger Bose L's with the Tonematch would be pretty great. Schertler Jam 150 or Jam 400 have four input channels, if memory serves and finally, something like a QSC Touchmix 8 and a QSC K10/K12 would work a charm.

markdub · #5 02-18-2016, 05:55 AM

Thanks. If I go the PA powered speaker route, anything else I need? For example, a preamp/DI?

jonfields45 · #6 02-18-2016, 06:18 AM

My duo gigs a couple of times a month with a single Yamaha DBR10 (only 23 lbs) high and behind as mains and monitor using a bottom of the line Yamaha MG06x mixer. The mics go into the two XLR inputs and the two guitars into the two 1/4" line inputs. The line inputs are too low an impedance for a passive pickup such as a K&K. For active guitars, such as my T5z, I plug it in directly or via an effects pedal (my current favorite is "true bypass" and provides no buffering when off). Our K&K equipped Martins are always routed first to a Baggs Venue. If there is an advantage to a higher end heavier speaker, I've not discovered it and being my own roadie tilts the decision.

martingitdave · #7 02-18-2016, 06:28 AM

You need either a powered speaker and a mixer, or an all in one PA solution with built in mixer. You should base your decision on the max number of channels you need, despite the fact that they are occasional. Most compact systems are designed for two instrument/mic channels and an aux/line input. You'll need 4 instrument/mic channels. That limits the number of compact solutions that will suffice without the use of a sub mixer. The reason this is important is that most of these acoustic solutions include preamp for mics and piezoelectrics with EQ and various effects. Otherwise, it's just straight in and you get what you get.

In the "elegant solution" (meaning one box, no extra mixer, cables, power supplies, etc.) category, I would recommend the Carvin S600 or the Carvin AG300 for units with built in mixer. They are the only ones i have found in the market with enough channels and a sub $1000 price point. The Line 6 product I purchased only has 3 inputs, otherwise I would HIGHLY recommend it. Bose L1 with tone match mixer would be another very good, but much more expensive, option. The SA220 could possibly work, but will also, technically, require a submixer, once you hit 4 channels. Though you can try and fake it using the monitor and aux inputs, along with FX loop. But, no guarantee the sources will have the right input gain, EQ, or feedback control.

I would go with S600 if you want to keep it under $1000 all in and make it a lighter one until (plus stand) haul in. If you have more money, the AER Domino sounds like a good option. If you want an expandable system, again, the L1 with tone match is excellent. Tone match is a great mixer and makes the vocals sound beautiful.

If you want ultimate flexibility, you'll need a small FX mixer and nice powered speaker. It will be a little more gear to carry.

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se7ent7 · #8 02-18-2016, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

My duo gigs a couple of times a month with a single Yamaha DBR10 (only 23 lbs) high and behind as mains and monitor using a bottom of the line Yamaha MG06x mixer. The mics go into the two XLR inputs and the two guitars into the two 1/4" line inputs. The line inputs are too low an impedance for a passive pickup such as a K&K. For active guitars, such as my T5z, I plug it in directly or via an effects pedal (my current favorite is "true bypass" and provides no buffering when off). Our K&K equipped Martins are always routed first to an Baggs Venue. If there is an advantage to a higher end heavier speaker, I've not discovered it and being my own roadie tilts the decision.

I have extensively compared the DBR-10 to the DXR-10 and the ABS cabinets and better quality components in the DXR definitely make a difference. The DBR has that (normal) plastic PA speaker cabinet sound (albeit much less than other brands - I would say the DBR beats the RCF Arts here), while the DXR has a more solid richer low and low-mid response, along with a richer more detailed sound in general.

We use DXR-10 for FOH tops, and when shopping for a monitor, I really wished I could get away with the appreciably lighter DBR, but the quality (soundstage of harmonies being a big thing for our monitoring purposes) on the DXR was better. So now we have one for a monitor too. It's nice to hear more-or-less what the audience hears.

pipe dreamer · #9 02-18-2016, 06:52 AM

Have a look at the AER Domino. They are expensive but extremely good. The latest (version 3) has 4 channels each with its own eq and effects. Maybe you could pick up a second hand one.

Audie · #10 02-18-2016, 07:24 AM

Hello Mark,

I was doing the same search just a couple of months ago and for the same purposes. The options I narrowed down to were a a QSC 10' speaker or two and a Mackie 8 channel mixer, the SA220 and the Mackie, and the Bose L1 S1 with B2 Bass speaker and either the Bose Tone Match or Mackie. After considering everything, portability, convenience, and most importantly sound, I went with the Bose and the Tone Match. Could not be happier. I no longer need my DI Box, Tuner, 10 band MXR EQ, Wampler Compresor pedal, or my reverb pedal. The Tone Match gets it all done. Life has been made very good with my decision and wishing you the best in your decision.

martingitdave · #11 02-18-2016, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audie

Hello Mark,

I was doing the same search just a couple of months ago and for the same purposes. The options I narrowed down to were a a QSC 10' speaker or two and a Mackie 8 channel mixer, the SA220 and the Mackie, and the Bose L1 S1 with B2 Bass speaker and either the Bose Tone Match or Mackie. After considering everything, portability, convenience, and most importantly sound, I went with the Bose and the Tone Match. Could not be happier. I no longer need my DI Box, Tuner, 10 band MXR EQ, Wampler Compresor pedal, or my reverb pedal. The Tone Match gets it all done. Life has been made very good with my decision and wishing you the best in your decision.

If you have the money, L1 with tone match is a great option.

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lschwart · #12 02-18-2016, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markdub

Thanks. If I go the PA powered speaker route, anything else I need? For example, a preamp/DI?

It depends on what kind of pickup system you have in your guitars and how far away from the mixer you will need to be when you play.

Louis

kaos · #13 02-18-2016, 08:49 AM

The small mixer / powered speaker advice is good. I would make sure that one of those components has reverb. Or you can get a nanoverb like device and use the effects loop on the mixer ... but it is simpler if the effects are builtin.

markdub · #14 02-18-2016, 10:01 AM

Thanks again for all the advice and shared experiences. I'll do some more homework in the options you all mentioned.
On the preamp side of things, unsure if it matters but my main guitar for this type of set will be my 000-18 retro with the factory pickup. I'm such a noob at acoustic amplification and associated issues - too used to just plugging my electric into the amp and not thinking about pre's, mic channels, etc.

martingitdave · #15 02-18-2016, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markdub

Thanks again for all the advice and shared experiences. I'll do some more homework in the options you all mentioned.
On the preamp side of things, unsure if it matters but my main guitar for this type of set will be my 000-18 retro with the factory pickup. I'm such a noob at acoustic amplification and associated issues - too used to just plugging my electric into the amp and not thinking about pre's, mic channels, etc.

You're good to go. The Retro with the Aura needs nothing else but a cord and good amp/pa. Good luck!

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