Q re Fender Electric Guitar Amps

[BoB/335]

22 hours

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Pro-Rever...item4a9d8ddf77

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Hi Herb,

I don't know why one wouldn't want to produce both well, but I think you're suggesting it may take different amps to optimize both to one's preference. I'm not that discerning and although I'm relatively inexperienced amp-wise, I've always wanted a blackface twin reverb since playing around with a friend's years ago. I just can't justify the size/weight/power/cost. I'm hoping to find a real good facsimile, but a fair bit smaller/lighter, less power and cheaper. It doesn't have to be Fender, and I realize tone taste is personal, I thought some of you experienced guys could recommend a best alternative for me to investigate.

Thanks.

[RP]

Fender's Hot Rod Deluxe has a strong following, including myself. Some will tell you it's 40 watts are too much amp for home use, but I'd still suggest trying one out if you want a nice clean, classic tube sound. There are quite a few available on the used market.....

[Taylorplayer]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Hi TP,

I play mainly classic folk/rock and originals somewhere within the genres.

Hi Tom:

I really am "out of my league" here, (and I will admit it), but I think your style of music may indeed influence to the type of amp you want. My friend's son is a very talented guitarist, but for a while all he wanted to do was play heavy metal. To my ears, almost any amp in "overdrive" would work for that. Your preference will likely call for a much cleaner sound... Please keep us informed.

Peace,
TP

[zombywoof]

I agree on the Fender SF amps -all hand wired tube amps which can still be found on the cheap. Also easy to mod if you decide you would rather have a Blackface sound.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Taylorplayer

Hi Tom:

I really am "out of my league" here, (and I will admit it), but I think your style of music may indeed influence to the type of amp you want. My friend's son is a very talented guitarist, but for a while all he wanted to do was play heavy metal. To my ears, almost any amp in "overdrive" would work for that. Your preference will likely call for a much cleaner sound... Please keep us informed.

Peace,
TP

Yeah, I guess a cleaner sound would be more to my style.

[Taylorplayer]

Hi Tom:

PM sent ~

Peace,
Bill

[Acousticado]

Guys, please endulge me now shifting from the original topic to one of practicality to my actual needs. I mainly play acoustic -- my CAs and Taylor. I play mostly at home and the occasional jam at friends houses. I hope to play open mics at some point. I don't amp much, but when I do I have a Carvin AG100D acoustic amp. It's pretty decent.

My two sons (28 & 26 y/o) have been playing acoustics for a few years and they live on their own. Still beginners, but they recently expressed to play electric. Over Christmas, I sought ideas here and we went shopping. They happened to choose the same guitars and amps -- a MIM Strat HSS and Roland Cube 20x (20w, closed back). They're into it big time and we plan to get together often. I have a 2002 '57 American Strat RI. I don't play it much and when I do, I run it through the Carvin acoustic amp and a POD modeler. It's been ok, but at this point in my life, I want to get into electric again and I can afford a good electric guitar amp. Thus, this is why I thought of a smaller/lighter/cheaper Fender amp as close as possible to a '65 twin reverb. Obviously, amps I originally asked about are way beyond my need and therefore, must settle for another tone. My sons and I are into classic folk/rock and I'd say, mainly clean tone.

From this thread, I've been learning, researching different amp brands and I realize I really need something quite low powered. Although I plan to check local shops, but trying amps in the stores isn't always the greatest environment to get the best sense of a desired amp. To some degree, I'll be taking a bit of a chance. I can always sell/buy another until I get what ultimately works for me.

Here's what I plan to consider/try:

It may be silly, but I'm drawn to the Fender blackface look. The '65 Princeton Reverb RI seems sweet, but still probably way too powerful. I'm wondering about what you guys might think of the Super Champ XD (15w into 8 ohms; vintage modified tube amp - 1-12AX7A and 2-6V6; 16 DSP effects, solid-state overdrive and distortion). It seems like a good size and power for my needs. Price is within my range.

Edit: I just read about 130 reviews for this amp here http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...mbo?sku=483075. Looks pretty good for about $300.


I'm also going to consider some VOX and Roland Cube models (both tube and solid state).

Opinions are very much appreciated. Thanks.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Hi Herb,

I don't know why one wouldn't want to produce both well, but I think you're suggesting it may take different amps to optimize both to one's preference. I'm not that discerning and although I'm relatively inexperienced amp-wise, I've always wanted a blackface twin reverb since playing around with a friend's years ago. I just can't justify the size/weight/power/cost. I'm hoping to find a real good facsimile, but a fair bit smaller/lighter, less power and cheaper. It doesn't have to be Fender, and I realize tone taste is personal, I thought some of you experienced guys could recommend a best alternative for me to investigate.

Thanks.

If distortion is a priority, then one might be inclined to choose a different amplifier than if clean tones were preferred. In order to get the best distortion tone, amplifiers usually have to be turned up quite a bit and, therefore, a very low wattage amp is advisable for home use. In order to get clean tones one needs a more powerful amplifier so as not to accidentally drive it in to distortion. I was getting fairly good tone out of my '65 Reissue Twin Reverb at low volume when desiring an undistorted sound but I would be deaf now if I had tried to use that amp for distortion. Nevertheless, some people are happy with the distortion they get from amplifiers like the Blues Deluxe or Blues JR. when turned down low enough for home use.

The Champ ED and the '65 Reissue Princeton Reverb both are capable of producing 15 watts which is quite loud. For an amplifier to be twice as loud, it would have to be able to produce 150 watts, all else being equal. So while the Twin Reverb would be louder it wouldn't be as much louder as the difference between 85 watts and 15 watts might suggest.

I think, in order to make an informed choice, you should compare the '65 Reissue Deluxe Reverb, the '65 Reissue Princeton Reverb and the Super Champ XD before making a decision even if you don't intend to spend more than the cost of the Super Champ.

I'm partial to the blackface Fender's too.

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Guys, please endulge me now shifting from the original topic to one of practicality to my actual needs. I mainly play acoustic -- my CAs and Taylor. I play mostly at home and the occasional jam at friends houses. I hope to play open mics at some point. I don't amp much, but when I do I have a Carvin AG100D acoustic amp. It's pretty decent.

My two sons (28 & 26 y/o) have been playing acoustics for a few years and they live on their own. Still beginners, but they recently expressed to play electric. Over Christmas, I sought ideas here and we went shopping. They happened to choose the same guitars and amps -- a MIM Strat HSS and Roland Cube 20x (20w, closed back). They're into it big time and we plan to get together often. I have a 2002 '57 American Strat RI. I don't play it much and when I do, I run it through the Carvin acoustic amp and a POD modeler. It's been ok, but at this point in my life, I want to get into electric again and I can afford a good electric guitar amp. Thus, this is why I thought of a smaller/lighter/cheaper Fender amp as close as possible to a '65 twin reverb. Obviously, amps I originally asked about are way beyond my need and therefore, must settle for another tone. My sons and I are into classic folk/rock and I'd say, mainly clean tone.

From this thread, I've been learning, researching different amp brands and I realize I really need something quite low powered. Although I plan to check local shops, but trying amps in the stores isn't always the greatest environment to get the best sense of a desired amp. To some degree, I'll be taking a bit of a chance. I can always sell/buy another until I get what ultimately works for me.

Here's what I plan to consider/try:

It may be silly, but I'm drawn to the Fender blackface look. The '65 Princeton Reverb RI seems sweet, but still probably way too powerful. I'm wondering about what you guys might think of the Super Champ XD (15w into 8 ohms; 1-12AX7A and 2-6V6; DSP effects, solid-state overdrive and distortion). It seems like a good size and power for my needs. Price is within my range.

Edit: I just read about 130 reviews for this amp here http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...mbo?sku=483075. Looks pretty good for about $300.


I'm also going to consider some VOX and Roland Cube models (both tube and solid state).

Opinions are very much appreciated. Thanks.

I have heard a lot of good about the Champ XD. From what you have been describing, it's probably a good choice for you.

As an aside, the 15 watt Princeton Reverb is quite loud for 15 watts but don't believe for a minute that there is not much difference in volume between that and a Twin!
Also I'm from the school to get the clean sound you want and get overdrive from a good pedal. It's almost impossible the other way around.

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Also I'm from the school to get the clean sound you want and get overdrive from a good pedal. It's almost impossible the other way around.

Yeah, what he said.

It's worth noting and thinking about, as well, that a small amp always sounds small, even when it's loud, unless you are going for that wound out Supro etc. tiny amp in overdrive sound.

Part of what you may hear in that big ol' Twin is two 12" speakers pushing air, which just really sounds lush and full, in my experience. However, when I play my Princeton at home it sits either tilted on a stand or sitting on a shelf, and pointed two or so feet from my head -- at low volume it still sounds "big". It higher volumes it sounds loud

My first SF amp was a Champ (forgot all about it!) and I'll tell ya, I had to stand in another room to get enough volume out of 'er for that overdriven sound. Hey, I'm an acoustic guy!

I have a nice OD pedal if I want the Princeton to sound pushed a little harder.

I gotta say that if y'all are truly getting into electric, and you are clearly the type of guy who likes nice gear (judging by your acoustics), it's likely you'll outgrow that new Champ and want something either bootik-er or a "real" Fender. If that's true, maybe consider the "buy used and play for free" rule.

When everyone told me that at first I thought "naw, I'll be happy with the cheap, new stuff," but sho nuff, they wuz right!

td

[trpullen]

First....the ChampXD has a small speaker and it sounds, well...small. I am not sure what the draw is for these makers to put tiny little AM radio speakers in low wattage amps. It just makes no sense to me but...hey.

Look for something low wattage with a 12" speaker and you will be happier. Here are some options to look at that are Fender(y) and will get you some AWESOME tones.

First up: Carr Amps
The Slant 6V is my personal favorite BUT...for you needs, the Mercury could be total nirvana (state, not band). Comes with a 12" speaker. Can be set from 8W all the way down to 1/10th of a Watt. Listen to the first clip for a really nice clean tone. http://www.carramps.com/mercury.html and then also listen to http://www.carramps.com/audio/mercury/henderson.mp3 for an idea of what this amp can do. Really wide range.

Also look at the Raleigh in that line. 3Watts. Has a nice big sound for only having a 10"...but it is a good 10" Good video demo here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdNW8U0Flg

Next up, Allen Amps:
These are Fender clones that are all handwired. Think R Taylor vs Taylor.

Not may clips out there on these guys but...have a look. http://www.allenamps.com/index.php

The Sweet Spot and the Accomplice are on my list of things to own at some point.

Next...Dr. Z

Frankly, most are more Marshally or Voxy but...check out the JAZ 20/40. Yeah, it will have lots more watts than you may need now but with the AirBrake in it and the half-power switch, it will do home volume and kill when you go on tour.

http://www.drzamps.com/jaz.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEF-TNVMiLc

I will keep thinking. This should keep you busy for a while.

[royd]

a couple more thoughts...

The Fender Champ XD (or whatever the current designation is) could be a very good match for you.

while it is true that doubling power only gives you about 3db all things being equal, all things are never equal. The difference in speaker area and efficiency makes even more difference than power... then add the difference in headroom and any other design differences and the volume differences can be huge or very small.

I am also one who prefers to get dirt from a pedal rather than from the amp so I look for something with very little break up. Many Fender models have a lot of headroom, especially with single coil pups like a strat.

There are lots of options at higher price points - like the Carr & the Allens mentioned above.

After reading the thread again and your issues, I'd still recommend the old silverface Fender Champ. I would either shoehorn a 10 inch speaker into it (Weber can tell you which would fit) or get a larger cab with a 10 or 12 inch speaker cut out. YMMV, and you may be thrilled with the 8 or even just replace it with a better 8 - again, talk to the folk at Weber. The amps don't break up until you hit about 7 or 8 on the volume (which is pretty loud even with the stock 8 inch speaker), take pedals very nicely, have a similar clean sound to the larger Fenders, plus with only three tubes, it is not terribly expensive to play around with different pre-amp and power tubes. On top of all of that, they are an easily fixed design with all of the parts mounted on an eyelet board. And if you want a blackface look, you can get a new faceplate for a few dollars. The design itself is basically the same as the blackface Champs.

FWIW, I have a silverface champ in a larger cab with a 12 inch Weber Blue Dog that I use in church with the church band every Sunday (two electric guitars, acoustic guitar, drums, bass, synth, & piano). I have a big pedalboard with 11 pedals including two different overdrives. I love it. If I was playing electric in bars these days, I'd throw a mike in front of it and use it there.

[Acousticado]

Thanks for all the ideas, Tom. All seem very nice, but out of my price range at this time. Whatever I buy, I doubt it will be my only or last, and I've added the links you've provided to my inventory of future considerations.

Thanks again!

Tom

Originally Posted by trpullen

First....the ChampXD has a small speaker and it sounds, well...small. I am not sure what the draw is for these makers to put tiny little AM radio speakers in low wattage amps. It just makes no sense to me but...hey.

Look for something low wattage with a 12" speaker and you will be happier. Here are some options to look at that are Fender(y) and will get you some AWESOME tones.

First up: Carr Amps
The Slant 6V is my personal favorite BUT...for you needs, the Mercury could be total nirvana (state, not band). Comes with a 12" speaker. Can be set from 8W all the way down to 1/10th of a Watt. Listen to the first clip for a really nice clean tone. http://www.carramps.com/mercury.html and then also listen to http://www.carramps.com/audio/mercury/henderson.mp3 for an idea of what this amp can do. Really wide range.

Also look at the Raleigh in that line. 3Watts. Has a nice big sound for only having a 10"...but it is a good 10" Good video demo here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdNW8U0Flg

Next up, Allen Amps:
These are Fender clones that are all handwired. Think R Taylor vs Taylor.

Not may clips out there on these guys but...have a look. http://www.allenamps.com/index.php

The Sweet Spot and the Accomplice are on my list of things to own at some point.

Next...Dr. Z

Frankly, most are more Marshally or Voxy but...check out the JAZ 20/40. Yeah, it will have lots more watts than you may need now but with the AirBrake in it and the half-power switch, it will do home volume and kill when you go on tour.

http://www.drzamps.com/jaz.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEF-TNVMiLc

I will keep thinking. This should keep you busy for a while.

[trpullen]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Thanks for all the ideas, Tom. All seem very nice, but out of my price range at this time. Whatever I buy, I doubt it will be my only or last, and I've added the links you've provided to my inventory of future considerations.

Thanks again!

Tom

Sorry....I must have mis-read this. Typically, a statement like this means "I want to step beyond standard level stuff".

Originally Posted by Acousticado

but at this point in my life, I want to get into electric again and I can afford a good electric guitar amp.

So, with all that in mind, look at this amp if you can find one.

Peavey Windsor Studio 20W. It comes with an EL-34 but can also take a 6L6 or 6550 and has a PowerSoak. It can dial down to nearly no sound at all. They sound great and are in your budget. Grab this 1000x before you go for an 8" speaker.

[Hambone]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

I'm not going to argue dB's but I highly disagree. I have a '68 Twin and a '69 Pro. They both came with Oxfords. 40 watts vs. 100 watts. I see that as a big difference in power and a big difference in actual application from first hand experience.

None of that really matters for this discussion of playing in a house. I still go with the Blackface setting with a touch of reverb on my MicroCube.

The big difference imho is clean headroom. Both get pretty loud (the Twin moreso for sure) but the Twin stays clean much longer, especially through a pair of JBLs.