Alternative to Neck Reset

[Dan Lampton]

My favorite guitar (000 12 fret steel string) was built by a serious but amateur builder. Fifteen years later it is in need of neck reset. I contacted the builder and he is in no position to help (I understand this and it is no issue for me) but we discussed options to make the guitar right again. He mentioned that the neck joint might not be practical to take apart and suggested removing the fingerboard and adding some height there. Frankly the neck has always been a bit too thin for my tastes so this sounds like a good idea to me.

I recall reading an article on Frets.com detailing this procedure with a classical guitar. Do you have any thoughtful and experienced ideas about this solution? I would appreciate any warnings or affirmations.

Thanks.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Dan Lampton

My favorite guitar (000 12 fret steel string) was built by a serious but amateur builder. Fifteen years later it is in need of neck reset. I contacted the builder and he is in no position to help (I understand this and it is no issue for me) but we discussed options to make the guitar right again. He mentioned that the neck joint might not be practical to take apart and suggested removing the fingerboard and adding some height there. Frankly the neck has always been a bit too thin for my tastes so this sounds like a good idea to me.

I recall reading an article on Frets.com detailing this procedure with a classical guitar. Do you have any thoughtful and experienced ideas about this solution? I would appreciate any warnings or affirmations.

Thanks.

First you have to assess why the neck angle is off. Could be a failed joint, could be a failed fingerboard extension brace, could be bridge plate and/or X-bracing failure.

You don't want to fix something that is not the problem.

[Alan Carruth]

If the neck is not removable, then shimming the fingerboard is about the only option. If the fingerboard was glued on with something like Titebond (ask the builder) it should come off relatively easily with some judicious heating. From there it's pretty straightforward to shim it up.

This assumes that it really DOES need a reset. If the action is high due to neck distortion then a truss rod adjustment and/or stiffening the neck up is the correct solution. You'd know if that's the case because the relief will be really high around the fifth-seventh fret. Resetting a neck that has bent up from string tension is not helpful, since you're still left with the relief issue.

Neck resets are called for when the BODY has distorted and changed the angle.

[pops]

Does this have a truss rod? and is it properly adjusted while a truss rod is only meant to adjust the relief in the neck, it does have an effect on action. You should never adjust the truss rod to change action, but adjusting for correct neck relief can have a big effect on action.

[Dan Lampton]

Thanks for the replies. A straight edge across the fret board falls below the edge of the bridge. It does have an adjustable truss rod. The relief is set to my typical "just barely" (between the first and twelfth frets). A local repair man checked the braces and found nothing loose. There is some "bellying" on the top. This repair guy felt that was typical and seemed to be stable. The builder also looked at it and thought it was typical. Again, he did not find any loose braces.

The guitar is properly humidified. If the guitar is left without string tension for some time the action is acceptable when first restrung (3/32 at 12th fret on low e string). Within a day or two with tension the action creeps back up. It is certainly playable for cowboy chords but not in the higher frets.

I have filed the saddle down to where I am now happy with the action. It has been stable for the past two months. The builder was concerned that the diminished break angle over the saddle may some effect on volume and tone. Frankly, I can't tell.

[Frank Ford]

If you read all the forum discussions about neck angles, it's possible to come to the conclusion that there is some kind of rigid international standard for measurements, including bridge height, break angle, string height over the top and stuff like that.

I think it's fair to consider the type, style, quality and use of an instrument along with the other factors influencing playability such as fretwork, neck relief and strings.

So, if you were here with the instrument, we might end up talking about a number of options that others would consider inappropriate for other instruments. In other words, an instrument might benefit from neck resetting, but there might well be other means to achieve reasonable playability that can be done within the scope of your interests.

I suggest you take it to a technician who has strong experience with repair and restoration of a wide variety of guitars, and together you may find the setup approach that works for you.

Measurements, photos, and online discussions can be helpful, but also can obscure a simple approach that can keep you picking. . .

[Dan Lampton]

Thank you Frank.

[John Arnold]

You can fix the shallow break angle by cutting slots for the strings in the bridge. However, that does nothing to remedy the fact that the strings may be too close to the top.
The salient question is whether the fact that the strings are closer to the top than ideal has a negative effect on playability. If not, then I would do nothing.
The reason I say that is contained in your last post:

I have filed the saddle down to where I am now happy with the action. It has been stable for that past two months.

Frankly, I can't tell.

If you are satisfied with the tone and playability, then you are done.
Raising ther strings at the bridge means that there will be more torque on the top. The fact that you notice the top pulling up after a day or two tells me that the guitar is not an ideal candidate for a reset and a higher saddle. The fact that the sound does not noticeably suffer from the lower saddle is another indication.

[John Arnold]

OTOH, if you really want a thicker neck, then pull off the fingerboard and put a shim under it.


Ideally, you would determine the optimum saddle height beforehand. Once that is determined, the shim thickness and amount of taper can be figured.

[LouieAtienza]

The work you do to it would be dependent on the value you put on the instrument. If the neck is truly made non-removable, and everything else is OK, there is the slipped neck block method, which would correct the neck angle and not require a fretboard shim, but would require loosening the back at the upper bout, back binding, and possibly heel cap. The neck is moved to a better angle and the back reglued, holding the neck at its new angle. The binding is replaced as well as touch up. It's a pretty involved job however.

I would make sure the guitar is not over-humidified, though I think your repairman and builder would have noticed that already.

A while back I had an action problem on one of my player guitars, where I didn't want to do a neck reset. Also the neck was pretty thin. I shimmed the fretboard with white and black veneer, which gave me just enough height, and as a bonus it looks like purfling on the fretboard edge!

[Dan Lampton]

Thanks for the input guys. Some good things to consider.

[redir]

I'd dare say that this is good opportunity for you to get a feel for the neck that you like better. So go ahead and shim it up. But then again like Alan said if you are truly happy with it now then you are done.

A few years ago I built a Selmer guitar and traditionally they have tapered necks such that the thickness of the neck is thin at the nut and thicker as you approach the heal. Since then I have built a few guitars with this kind of neck and personally I really like it. So this is what you would get if you use a shim, it will change the feel of the neck but you may like it too.

[Dan Lampton]

That's a good point. Since it is working for me now I'm going to leave it alone, but I appreciate all the great ideas. If nothing else I have some peace of mind if "things" start to move around again.