Convert your Acoustic to a Baritone, or a Bb Guitar

[GuitarinBb]

I have played a lot with various string gauges to get my guitars set up the way I want, and D'addario's string tension chart has been a great help. It started with my tuning my Guild 12 down a whole step on the advice of a friend and my luthier based on my wanting to run 12's on it, and then finding most of the time I preferred playing it with the capo off, so in a sense it's now a guitar in Bb. Handy for when I play tenor sax with it, as now we're in the same key. A little while later I tuned my 6's the same way, and then I fell in love with baritone, but there were few models available, so I tried taking a jumbo Thompson regular 6 I had and stringing it as a baritone, and it has been that way for about 10 years at least and I adore it. The chart below tells the story. Tuned as listed with the gauges listed the Bb 6 and the Bari have essentially the same tension on them as a standard 6 with medium strings. The low B string for the bari is an acoustic bass string and must be put through the bridge from the inside out as the ball is too big. You'll need to adjust your nut slots. I'm plenty picky about intonation, and with the bari tuned to B I don't notice any change, and I play up and down the neck.




Standard 6----------------Drop Step 6 (Bb)----------Baritone (Standard guitar scale of 25 9/16" strung and tuned as a baritone, B-B, A Thompson TM1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lt set-------Md Set-------My Set---------------------My Set
12=23.3---13=27.4-----14=25.2 (D) 15=28.9-----18=29.5 (B) 19=32.8
16=23.3---17=26.3-----19=26.1 (A)----------------25=29.4 (F#) 27=34.4
24=30.2---26=35.3-----27=30.4 (F)----------------32=30.5 (D)
32=30.5---35=36.8-----39=35.8 (C) 36=30.9-----45=34 (A) 46=35.4
42=29.9---45=34-------49=31.8 (G)----------------59=32.2 (E) 56=29
53=26-----56=29-------70=35.1 (D) 66=31.8-----80=33.5 (B)
=163.2-------=188.8------=184.4----------------------=189.1

[drive-south]

How is a guitar tuned down a whole step a Bb guitar?
Your C shaped chord is now a Bb.

2 of my 12 strings have .012-.054 gage strings and tuned down a whole step. I have 1 with .013 gage set tuned to C#. I hate light gage 12 string set .010 to .047 especially the .008 gage octave G that breaks before its even tuned to pitch.

[L20A]

Once in a while, I will put a set of heavy gauge strings on one of my guitars and then tune it down to C.
If you are only tuning down one step, you are in D to D tuning.

All is good though.

[GuitarinBb]

I realize this is a bit tongue in cheek and that it seems in the string world people don't look at it this way, but in the world of horns, and possibly other instruments, I think often called transposing instruments, if according to a fingering chart you are playing a "C", or according to written music for that instrument you are playing a "C", but according to a tuner, or say a piano (a non-transposing instrument) you would be playing a Bb, then that instrument is said to be in Bb. Some common examples of this would be trumpet, tenor sax, soprano sax. If you think you're playing a C but the world hears an Eb, then it's said to be an Eb horn, ie an alto sax, or a bari sax. I know guitarists don't think this way, but since I come from the horn world, I do.

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by L20A

Once in a while, I will put a set of heavy gauge strings on one of my guitars and then tune it down to C.
If you are only tuning down one step, you are in D tuning.

All is good though.

Please see my response above, and to me, technically D tuning is meant to say an open chord tuning that creates a D chord. Your not tuned to any particular chord when you drop everything a whole step, and since so many folks play in open tunings, just calling a full drop step tuning D tuning can be confusing.

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by drive-south

How is a guitar tuned down a whole step a Bb guitar?
Your C shaped chord is now a Bb.

Please see my response above.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by drive-south

How is a guitar tuned down a whole step a Bb guitar?
Your C shaped chord is now a Bb.

2 of my 12 strings have .012-.054 gage strings and tuned down a whole step. I have 1 with .013 gage set tuned to C#. I hate light gage 12 string set .010 to .047 especially the .008 gage octave G that breaks before its even tuned to pitch.

The guitar (in standard tuning) is a "C" instrument, like the piano, violin and flute, among others. If tuned down a whole step, it becomes a Bb instrument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:C_instruments

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

The guitar (in standard tuning) is a "C" instrument, like the piano, violin and flute, among others. If tuned down a whole step, it becomes a Bb instrument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:C_instruments

Steven, what makes it (or anything, I guess) a "C" instrument? Your link is just a list.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by GuitarinBb

...The low B string for the bari is an acoustic bass string and must be put through the bridge from the inside out as the ball is too big...

FYI LaBella makes a baritone set with an .080 low B string...

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by GuitarinBb

I realize this is a bit tongue in cheek and that it seems in the string world people don't look at it this way, but in the world of horns, and possibly other instruments, I think often called transposing instruments, if according to a fingering chart you are playing a "C", or according to written music for that instrument you are playing a "C", but according to a tuner, or say a piano (a non-transposing instrument) you would be playing a Bb, then that instrument is said to be in Bb. Some common examples of this would be trumpet, tenor sax, soprano sax. If you think you're playing a C but the world hears an Eb, then it's said to be an Eb horn, ie an alto sax, or a bari sax. I know guitarists don't think this way, but since I come from the horn world, I do.

However, since you are writing on a forum for guitarists, many if not most are not trained in music theory much less how horns work, you might get a more positive response if you write for your audience.

So, what I think that I sussed out is that you like to tune your guitars down a step from standard E to E, to D to D. And that you also string one guitar with heavy strings and tune B to B, making it a "Baritone" guitar.

Personally I've never come across a standard-scaled guitar tuned that low, heavy strings or no, that sounded very good compared to a purpose built guitar with a longer scale length. A Leo Kottke Taylor-12 string, with standard scale but braced accordingly, was only tuned down to C# to C#, or one and a half steps.

I have always figured that the people who build guitars know far more than I do about how to built them to sound the best that they can. And they all seem to build Baritone guitars with longer scale lengths. So sorry, but I have to question your claim of equivalency. Have you A/Bd your low-tuned standard guitar against a purpose built Baritone?

Just wondering.

OMMV

TW

[robj144]

Originally Posted by GuitarinBb

Please see my response above, and to me, technically D tuning is meant to say an open chord tuning that creates a D chord. Your not tuned to any particular chord when you drop everything a whole step, and since so many folks play in open tunings, just calling a full drop step tuning D tuning can be confusing.

That's open D tuning if the strings open play a D chord.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by GuitarinBb

If you think you're playing a C but the world hears an Eb, then it's said to be an Eb horn, ie an alto sax, or a bari sax. I know guitarists don't think this way, but since I come from the horn world, I do.

Ouch. I think I could have spent the rest of my guitar-playing life never having been exposed to this concept.

[Wade Hampton]

What the OP is talking about is his approach to converting an acoustic guitar with a standard scale length to one that's tuned to the baritone range.

I've been playing baritone guitar since 1999, and what I have found is that these modified standard guitars can be made to be functional, if not optimal. I've never played one that had any acoustic projection to it at all, but if you're going to play plugged into an amp or PA, that's mostly moot, anyway.

For the way I use my baritone guitar as a music leader in church, it's imperative that it have good projection, and mine does, as Mycroft can attest. But different approaches can work for different musical needs.

My McAlister baritone has a scale length of 28.3 inches, and Mycroft's Beneteau baritone is 28 inches. These are instruments that will prove more musically versatile than a conversion baritone, but not everyone needs or wants the musical flexibility in a baritone guitar that I require. I agree that the tone from a modified baritone guitar like this isn't going to match that of a long scale purpose-built acoustic baritone guitar, but again, that doesn't always matter.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Steven, what makes it (or anything, I guess) a "C" instrument? Your link is just a list.

A "C" instrument is any instrument that when you play a written C the world would hear a C. Otherwise called a non-transposing instrument. In other words, if you play the fingering or position that to you makes a C, it sounds as a C. As opposed to for instance, if you play what is noted as a C fingering on a tenor sax, or you have music for tenor and a C is notated and you play that, the world hears a Bb.

[GuitarinBb]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

What the OP is talking about is his approach to converting an acoustic guitar with a standard scale length to one that's tuned to the baritone range.

I've been playing baritone guitar since 1999, and what I have found is that these modified standard guitars can be made to be functional, if not optimal. I've never played one that had any acoustic projection to it at all, but if you're going to play plugged into an amp or PA, that's mostly moot, anyway.

For the way I use my baritone guitar as a music leader in church, it's imperative that it have good projection, and mine does, as Mycroft can attest. But different approaches can work for different musical needs.

My McAlister baritone has a scale length of 28.3 inches, and Mycroft's Beneteau baritone is 28 inches. These are instruments that will prove more musically versatile than a conversion baritone, but not everyone needs or wants the musical flexibility in a baritone guitar that I require. I agree that the tone from a modified baritone guitar like this isn't going to match that of a long scale purpose-built acoustic baritone guitar, but again, that doesn't always matter.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

I have only extensively played the Alvarez Baritone, and the Santa Cruz, and spent a small amount of time with a few other models. I converted my Thompson because I had it already, at the time there were precious few baritones available, and hey were either sub-standard like the Alvarez, or over the top pricey like the Santa Cruz. I have played my Thompson a lot, both acoustically and plugged in, and many other people have played it, and every time without a doubt people are blown away in love with the tone and depth, and I dare say, versatility (this likely needs to be defined a bit more for all concerned, too open ended a word) of this guitar. It might be wise to be a little slower to make such a clear assessment on something you haven't seen or heard.