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Old 08-28-2010, 08:52 PM
Wadcutter Wadcutter is offline
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Default J-45: "Unplugged Guitar of Choice?"

Well, that's what John Chappell, Senior Editor of Harmony Central claims in his review of the new Brad Paisley Signature J-45 which he reviews in the September edition of Musician's Friend mailed out catalog. His complete statement is as follows: "Whereas as many large acoustics feature an overly prominent bass, the J-45 proves why it is the unplugged guitar of choice for rock and country rhythm sections and recording sessions of all types, it has an aliveness and a certain aggressive quality that enables it to punch through, yet it never overrides the mix with uncontrollable boom." I haven't played too many J-45's, a few, but not many, but the ones I played couldn't hold the empty string package of my HD-28VS. Maybe I'm talking out my elbow here because I've only played a few J-45's but, this is my experience, be that as it may.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:13 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Wadcutter, the reason a lot of players like the J-45 is that good ones will give you a very even tonal balance, like a Triple O or OM, but while retaining the power and volume level of a large body guitar. I first started playing guitar to back up fiddleplayers back home in my native state of Missouri, and the J-45's in particular are great guitars for playing backup for that traditional Missouri-style fiddling and - especially - playing backup for Texas Swing fiddling.

In that Texas style, the guitarplayer plays a chord change on every melody note with a chord that corresponds to that note, so, for example, if the melody notes stay within a G chord, with them going G, B, D, G, F, instead of backing all that with a G chord and maybe going to a G7 chord, a Texas Swing backup guitarist would play a G chord, then a B chord, then a D chord, another G chord and then an F chord, all of them going up the neck.

If you play that way on a Martin dreadnought, it tends to get a little muddy, especially the further up the neck you go. But if you play a bunch of ninth chords up the neck on a J-45, each note gets equal balance, and you retain clarity and separation between the notes of the chord wherever you happen to be on the neck.

So for an advanced chordal accompaniment style of playing like that, the J-45 is typically the better choice, even if the Martin sounds richer when you play it side by side with the J-45.

So it's a more practical choice for that style of playing, just as an F-5 style mandolin is more practical when playing with a full-tilt bluegrass band, because it'll cut through better. Personally I find A style mandolins more musical to listen to, but something about the added mass of mahogany inside the scroll of an F-5 gives it better projection and "cut."

So to get back to the J-45, that even tonal quality does make it easier to record than an overtone-heavy square-shouldered dreadnought. Obviously lots of Martins do get used in recording studios, and just as obviously there's a measure of hype to Mr. Chappell's comments.

But he's not entirely wrong, either.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:29 PM
geokie8 geokie8 is offline
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I knew there was a good reason why I kept my '78 J45 around all these years! (Now all I need to do is move to Missouri or Texas and learn how to play farther up the neck!)

geokie8
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:33 PM
Wadcutter Wadcutter is offline
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Thanks Wade, I see your point and it makes perfect sense. As a person who has never done any recording to speak of, I probably spoke out of ignorance. And being a Martin bigot doesn't help either I guess.
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:52 PM
Rexfordbridge Rexfordbridge is offline
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I have seen A LOT of J-45's with singer/songwriters. My buddy who works in a professional studio in L.A. says that 90% of the time it's either a J-45 or Hummingbird.
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:43 AM
zmf zmf is offline
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"In that Texas style, the guitarplayer plays a chord change on every melody note with a chord that corresponds to that note, so, for example, if the melody notes stay within a G chord, with them going G, B, D, G, F, instead of backing all that with a G chord and maybe going to a G7 chord, a Texas Swing backup guitarist would play a G chord, then a B chord, then a D chord, another G chord and then an F chord, all of them going up the neck."


Cool. Thanks, Wade. I've got to give that progression a try. Most of this done with an E chord shape?
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Old 08-30-2010, 12:04 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmf View Post
Cool. Thanks, Wade. I've got to give that progression a try. Most of this done with an E chord shape?
No, most of them that I've seen do it use that sort of triangular-shaped 9th chord formation on the bass strings. Getting yourself locked into the standard barre chord form doesn't give you enough flexibility for the quick changes.

It's not a style that I myself play, though I do play a lot of chords up the neck, so what I can tell you about it comes from observation rather than personal experience playing in that style.

I'm sure there must be a website about it somewhere, though.


whm
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:01 PM
Gham Gham is offline
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http://www.theguitarfiles.com/guitarfile133.html

I found this link since this thread sounded kinda fun to play around with.
Thanks for the suggestion Wade.
George
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:16 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Hi Wadcutter,

I can see where John Chappell is coming from on recommending the J-45 for recording. My own experience with a fair amount of recording is that my old Martin dreadnought had to be pretty heavily EQ'd to roll off the bass to deal with the proximity effects of the microphones and the general bass characteristics of my Martin D-35 when I was mixing it with other instruments in a full band setting. Even a D-18 is considerably less bass-heavy, and I can see where a J-45 would be even less so. I've had the same experience in live playing with a full band where the bass EQ has to be rolled off some to keep the guitar from muddying up the drum and bass lines. Good mixing is all about keeping each of the instruments in their own sonic space so they can be heard without blocking out the other instruments.

I also really appreciate Wade's comments about playing guitar backup to Texas Swing. Very interesting stuff Wade!

By the way, Wadcutter -- I still like my Martin guitars, EQ required or not!

Regards, Glenn
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:41 PM
$ongWriter $ongWriter is offline
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Default difference in recording and playing live...

Guitars sound differently played live and recorded. My Gibson sounds good both, but in front of a mic it comes alive. My Martin has a deeper tone but that's not "always" better...especially when recording. That's one reason some people have more than one guitar. If you think a big ole Martin dred will do it all...well I hate to say you're wrong but you're wrong....guitars are tools and we need different tools for different jobs!!...so, basically what I'm saying is we need more guitars!!!!
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:10 PM
zombywoof zombywoof is offline
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J-45s are the biggest banging, cowboy chord strumming guitars ever to be seen on the planet.
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:26 PM
35' Sunburst 35' Sunburst is offline
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I can't put my finger on it, pardon the pun, but there has always been a J45 or J50 around for me even if they are taking a break in the case. I have been playing 000 and OM size guitars lately but pulled out my J50 after a few months and man that thing is sweet. Bigger sound but well balanced. Sure glad I didn't let her go. I had a J35 for a bit but it was pretty close to the J50 with the J50 staying in the small heard and the J35 got sold. I agree they do feel and sound quite different than any Martin I've played but closer to a Martin than a Taylor - at least for me.
Long live the Round Shoulder Hog Dreads.
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Last edited by 35' Sunburst; 08-30-2010 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:05 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Glad you all have found the Texas Swing style guitar stuff interesting.

As it happens, the first time I ever saw a Gibson J-45 (or at least was aware of it) was in the mid-1970's at the Winfield Festival when Mark O'Connor was competing in the fiddle contest.

O'Connor was a gangly, pimply-faced teenage boy at that point (I think he might have been sixteen or seventeen) and the guy backing him up was a a slightly older young man playing some round-shouldered sunburst acoustic guitar I'd never seen before.

"What kind of guitar has he got there?" I asked somebody. (Remember, this is when Martin and Martin-style dreadnoughts were the absolute kings of the acoustic guitar, and even Gibson had stopped making round-shouldered dreads to follow the fashion for the square-shouldered ones.)

"That's an old Gibson J-45," came the reply. And I probably wrinkled my nose in unconscious revulsion, because back then Gibson's reputation for acoustic guitars with my generation was as low as it was possible to be, at least among folk and bluegrass-oriented players like me.

Anyway, that guy, whoever he was, proceeded to play the most astonishing, complex acoustic guitar accompaniment I'd ever seen up to that point. What amazed me about it, aside from the sheer complexity and drive of his playing, was how you could hear each and every note of each and every chord, no matter where up the neck it happened to be.

By that point I'd already developed a fondness for Martin 14 fret Triple O's, which have a similar clarity and tonal balance, but this guitar was delivering that same sort of balance in a powerful dreadnought body. Which by that point I already knew you couldn't do with a Martin or Mossman dreadnought.

So it was an eye-opening experience for me. I'd already been exposed to some Western Swing on recordings, but that was the first time I'd seen it in person, and realized what exactly was going on with the guitar parts.

It gave me a new respect for older Gibson guitars that simply hadn't been there before, and once Gibson started making their round-shouldered dreadnoughts again I had a sense of what they were capable of.


Wade Hampton Miller
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