Martin or Gibson $1000, $1500, $2000 or $3000

[J45HD28]

Originally Posted by Puerto Player

The OP asked for an opinion, because mine differ's from yours is what life is all about. Look at my collection of guitars, mostly Gibson's and only one Goodall. But, as much as I love my Gibson's, tone wise, they don't compare to Goodall's. I've played 4 Goodall's total in my life, they were the 4 best sounding guitars I've ever played. I knew it too after just 30 seconds of playing them. The first 3 I played were at a time when I'd never even heard of a Goodall before. As far as a few bad Goodall's being out there, I'm sure there are, but the percentage of them compared to bad Gibson's, Martins, Taylor's, etc., is statistically insignificant. I've been playing for over 45 years, and have owned pretty much every guitar I've thought I "had" to have. What I hear with Goodall's are harmonics that are in a league of their own compared to mass produced guitars. They are a safe bet and great value used, and since we're talking used, you'll probably not loose a dime if it turns out to be not for you. Goodall necks are something you need to be aware of though, they make many of them with pretty wide necks (wider than I prefer), so just be sure of the neck width.

Yep. You stated your opinion, and I replied with....get ready for it...my opinion! Isn't it great how that works?!

[DHillshafer]

I went to Guitar Center last month and played every acoustic they had. The Martin GC MMV was the clear winner on the day over everything else and I knew I had to have it. I shopped around, did further research and ended up buying a 2016 Gibson J-29 instead.
My J-29 just sings so beautifully. It's a perfect guitar for me and, while a little pricier than the MMV, is well worth the money.
IMO, the point of diminishing return on investment for a performance guitar is when you start paying for decorations without improving on features like build quality, components, and playability. Tone will always be up to your own ears.
For that reason I chose a guitar with minimal frills and maximum everything else. However, if investing in an instrument you can sell later at value is also a consideration, then frills are also okay.
And one more thing...
Since taking my J-29 home I've gone from playing a few hours a week to playing an average of 3 hours a day. Playing guitar is fun again because I'm loving what my ears are hearing. Playing a guitar you love is inspiring and refreshing. I am far more creative and passionate than I was just weeks ago; all because I chose the right instrument FOR ME.

[Nate the Skate]

Martin makes very fine guitars, but I am not quite sure what makes some of them so pricey. Is it what the company spends on marketing? Simple demand? I have a Larrivee P-05 parlor that was nicely priced, it was well below $1,500 new (street price). It is similar in specs to a Martin 0-18vs, as an all-solid-wood 12-fret, 0-size body with sitka spruce top and mahogany back and sides, and a gloss finish. The Larrivee is nearly the same except it has an abalone rosette and a non-slotted headstock, plus the size/dimensions are very slightly different. Both models are made in USA. If someone such as Tony Polecastro were to A-B these two models, I bet the Larrivee would more than hold its own. However, the Martin 0-18vs will cost a buyer at least $2,000 more than the Larrivee P-05. In terms of sound quality, I don't think it's worth it. Larrivee's lower-priced, satin-finished guitars may sound just as good as its more expensive gloss models, but I feel gloss finish is important in protecting the guitar from dings, etc. For me, then, the point of diminishing returns is somewhere between $1,400 and $2,000 ... for Larrivee -05 (mahogany) or -09 (rosewood) models, which are the highest quality guitars I'd ever need or want. I'd love to own a Martin guitar — I know the resale value of Martin guitars is impressive, and I had lusted for either a 0-28vs or a 0-18vs, partly because of the Martin name and reputation, partly because Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull played a similar model. Martin guitars often sound amazing, I know. But I happened upon the Larrivee brand, which I think offers superior quality guitars for excellent prices. I now have two Larrivees and, for the first time in my life, I am fully satisfied with my guitars (well, almost ... someday I want a custom Larrivee LS model, Euro alpine spruce/black walnut as a midsize guitar option). Larrivee is a brand to consider if build quality, tone, comfort and looks are most important to you. At this time, the resale value of Larrivee guitars is not so great — it is very much a buyer's market — so if that and name recognition and resale value are major sticking points for you, then you may want to spend the extra $$ and go for a Martin.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

The more important question is if you spend $3000 on one guitar is that really sensible. If that guitar is the everything instrument for you, then fine.
Most folks I know want more than one "type", whether it's body size,
Tone woods, style of playing, looks, and so on.
I found a great new Larrivee Custom L03 for $1200 and I have a Taylor 114e at $600. Both are great guitars in their own right and right now, I'm looking for a dreadnought of some sort. At the end of it all, I will have three different nice guitars for the amount you are willing to spend on one.
I just can't see myself with one $3000 guitar but maybe that will work for you.
If you are still in the early stage of learning the instrument, your tastes may change in a little while when you find your guitar self and your style as well as what you like to play. It may or may not be that $3000 guitar.
Just a thought.
On the other hand, you can always save up and buy another $3000 guitar later.

Bump
Ended up ordering a Pono D-20 Mahogany and Spruce Slope-Shoulder Dread in Sunburst from John Kitakis
AAAA Spruce and AAA Mahogany for $1279


Larrivee L03 Custom $1200
Pono Dreadnought Custom $1279
Taylor 144e GA $600
_______
$3079
Three very nice guitars for a little over what you have in your budget.

[RogerPease]

I'm a big believer in getting yourself a good instrument early on.
So spending more on a guitar you "don't deserve" isn't crazy at all.
It will make you more excited to play and you'll be ablate work with
it to feel how it is to play. Who cares if you have a slight embarrassment
of guitar riches? :-)

Your taste will evolve, so keeping resale in mind is not a bad idea.
Buying used a will save you ~25% over new if you can manage it.
And you'll take less of a hit if you do end up reselling later.
Assuming no abuse a guitar a few years old is actually better than
the same a factory fresh one. And they get dinged up anyway, at least
mine do.

Playability is a function of the set up which can be done after purchase.
Costs ~$100. Tone is much more a function of price.

I see two price points (these are new street prices):
* $1200 - $1800 for all solid wood top/back/sides "entry level serious" guitars
* $2000 - $3000 for pro level standard product guitars
Choose your poison.

The "entry level serious" guitars sound very good, but side-by-side the
pro level guitars will sound better. That is, it's easier to pull a rich, full,
loud tone from the pro level guitars. That's why the pros use them. Of
course, a great player can make a cigar box and rubber bands sound
good, but we're talking about learning to play.

For me the point of diminishing returns is in the $2000 - $2500 range.

I realize i'm generalizing wildly here, but I was in your shoes not so long
ago. I ended up buying a Gibson J-45 Standard and never looked back.
I play it an hour or more a day and it makes me happy. I still have my
Taylor 114 and I still like it and play it, but I also appreciate it for what it
does do well since I got the Gibson.

If you're sure you want to keep playing, buy yourself a nice guitar. You won't
regret it. Cheers,

_Roger

[sulkair]

Thanks again everyone for all the great words of wisdom! These types of forums are an amazing source of knowledge. I do pay it back in other messages boards where I have expertise. Guitars not yet

So... After playing at 4 separate locations on various guitars over the last couple weeks, and much research, I chose a brand new Taylor 810e with adirondack spruce bracing. I didn't necessarily desire or look for the adirondack bracing but it was the 801e that the shop had, and no other shops in my city had an 810e. I don't think it raised the price from a standard 801e but I could be wrong (anyone opine on this?). I gave $2750 pre-tax negotiated from $3400 which the shop had it listed for.

I'm absolutely in love with this guitar. My wife tells me I sound like a much better player already as compared to my Kaman Applause. Course my fingers are now numb - must sleep, must shower, must eat....

Yes - I admit this was too much money, but splurging on something amazing is something I almost NEVER do! My 7 year old daughter's love of singing and her amazing pipes is what inspired me to pick my Applause back up some time ago. If having this guitar inspires me to play more and get better, and inspires her to sing with me, then it's worth 10 times that much in the grand scheme. Plus it's my 46th Birthday in 2 days.

Was feeling a bit guilty that my poor wife doesn't get a 3K present, and was telling her so when I found myself standing on our hardwood floors that she just HAD to have. I changed my tone mid sentence to "We're even now!" She laughed and agreed.

Picture:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136965.../shares/49v51v

[roylor4]

Congrats Sulkair. Great choice & super nice guitar.

Enjoy!

[sulkair]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Congrats Sulkair. Great choice & super nice guitar.

Enjoy!

Thank you roylor4. And your "simple advice" was very helpful.

[Nate the Skate]

Originally Posted by RogerPease

I see two price points (these are new street prices):
* $1200 - $1800 for all solid wood top/back/sides "entry level serious" guitars
* $2000 - $3000 for pro level standard product guitars
Choose your poison.



_Roger

I don't want to be contentious, but I do not think this is correct. I think you can get a pro-level-sounding Larrivee for less than $2,000 that will hold its own against a Collings or Santa Cruz, at least in terms of tone. Froggy Bottom? They do seem to be in a different league. If people don't like the relatively flatter fretboards on Larrivees, then that's another topic. I like Larrivee's ebony fretboards with maple binding.

[Oldguy64]

Originally Posted by sulkair

yes, I've been visiting the guitar center looking and testing. I guess I was just wondering if there is a sweet-spot on price where you achieve the best of both worlds in quality and economy. Or is there no such calculation possible?

It really depends on you.
There are numerous instances of people going into GC, playing the way thru the inventory, and leaving with a $700 Taylor 114.
If I had up to $3,000 to spend, I'd likely buy a Taylor 618 or an Alvarez DYM.

But that's because, those two brands have served me well.
If you find a great J-45 Gibson, it will sound good, play good, and hit your price point.

But what I like, may be what you abhor.
Play the "best" guitar in the room as a baseline. Then play guitars in your price range till you find a sound that is as good or better to you.
The search should be an epic amount of fun with your budget. Enjoy!

[ataylor]

Originally Posted by sulkair

So... After playing at 4 separate locations on various guitars over the last couple weeks, and much research, I chose a brand new Taylor 810e with adirondack spruce bracing. I didn't necessarily desire or look for the adirondack bracing but it was the 801e that the shop had, and no other shops in my city had an 810e. I don't think it raised the price from a standard 801e but I could be wrong (anyone opine on this?). I gave $2750 pre-tax negotiated from $3400 which the shop had it listed for.

I'm absolutely in love with this guitar. My wife tells me I sound like a much better player already as compared to my Kaman Applause. Course my fingers are now numb - must sleep, must shower, must eat....

Very nice. I was reading the original post and first few pages and was about to suggest checking out a Taylor dreadnought or two (in addition to a Martin D-18 and Gibson J-45) but it looks like you beat me to it

Enjoy!

[TBman]

Originally Posted by sulkair

.................


I'm absolutely in love with this guitar. My wife tells me I sound like a much better player already as compared to my Kaman Applause. Course my fingers are now numb - must sleep, must shower, must eat....

Yes - I admit this was too much money.........

You found the one, congrats. It's not too much money if it doesn't impact the overall finances of the household in a material way and you enjoy playing it!

[F_Gator]

Originally Posted by sulkair

Thanks again everyone for all the great words of wisdom! These types of forums are an amazing source of knowledge. I do pay it back in other messages boards where I have expertise. Guitars not yet

So... After playing at 4 separate locations on various guitars over the last couple weeks, and much research, I chose a brand new Taylor 810e with adirondack spruce bracing. I didn't necessarily desire or look for the adirondack bracing but it was the 801e that the shop had, and no other shops in my city had an 810e. I don't think it raised the price from a standard 801e but I could be wrong (anyone opine on this?). I gave $2750 pre-tax negotiated from $3400 which the shop had it listed for.

I'm absolutely in love with this guitar. My wife tells me I sound like a much better player already as compared to my Kaman Applause. Course my fingers are now numb - must sleep, must shower, must eat....

Yes - I admit this was too much money, but splurging on something amazing is something I almost NEVER do! My 7 year old daughter's love of singing and her amazing pipes is what inspired me to pick my Applause back up some time ago. If having this guitar inspires me to play more and get better, and inspires her to sing with me, then it's worth 10 times that much in the grand scheme. Plus it's my 46th Birthday in 2 days.

Was feeling a bit guilty that my poor wife doesn't get a 3K present, and was telling her so when I found myself standing on our hardwood floors that she just HAD to have. I changed my tone mid sentence to "We're even now!" She laughed and agreed.

Picture:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136965.../shares/49v51v

Congrats, beautiful choice. A really nice guitar *will* make you play more, and will in-turn make you better. I know if that was my budget, I'd take many months to figure out how to spend it. Would be a great hunt though!

You should NOT feel guilty either! You invested in something that brings the family together, a "memory maker".

And regarding the hard wood floors... All part of the plan, right? Kinda why I went along with my wife getting that new stainless steel range when the one we had worked fine... <evil grin>.