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Old 01-05-2018, 11:25 AM
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Default X20 owners who have opted for shorter scale lengths

What scale length did you go for and what are your impressions?

I love the slinkiness (without buzz) of my 22.75” Cargo. My 25.5” Taylor 814c is fine, but in considering a new guitar purchase, I’d like a bit of more slinkiness. The 6 string neck of my Chimaera felt a little tighter than my Taylor, but I realize that the Chimaera and the X20 are different animals, so perhaps the standard 25.5” X20 actually feels less tight than an 814c...I don’t know.

To achieve what I’m wanting, what scale length would you recommend if I opt for an X20, and does a reduction make the already smaller feel of it (given that it’s in the GA/CS body specs), even smaller and more comfy...as a couch player.

Thanks!
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'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
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Old 01-05-2018, 03:19 PM
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Hi Tom,

I recently did a custom order for an X20. One of things I didn't like about the one I'd owned a few years back was the long scale. I was offered three short scales to choose from: 24.9, 24.6 and 24.0. I went with 24.6 based on Alistair's recommendation which he made based on the guitar I was playing at the time I made the order - a Santa Cruz 1929 00 with a 24.75" scale.

I was a little worried about this one aspect of my custom. I knew 24.0" would be too short for the X20 body which was affirmed after briefly owning an X7 with that scale. For a long time while waiting for the X20 build to finish I'd wished I'd gone with the 24.9" because it was a known quantity and the same as my Martin 000-18GE Custom.

But after receiving the X20 I have found the 24.6" scale to be perfect. It gives the guitar an intimacy that I was looking for. I think you definitely sacrifice a little volume with the shorter scale so if you don't plug in that might be a consideration for you. But other than that I have found it to be exactly what I'd hoped and envisioned.

You can read my full review by clicking down in my sig line.

Last edited by Methos1979; 01-05-2018 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 01-05-2018, 04:50 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Originally Posted by Methos1979 View Post
Hi Tom,

I recently did a custom order for an X20. One of things I didn't like about the one I'd owned a few years back was the long scale. I was offered three short scales to choose from: 24.9, 24.6 and 24.0. I went with 24.6 based on Alistair's recommendation which he made based on the guitar I was currently playing - a Santa Cruz 1929 00 with a 24.75" scale.

I was a little worried about this one aspect of my custom. I knew 24.0" would be too short for the X20 body which was affirmed after briefly owning an X7 with that scale. For a long time while waiting for the build to finish I'd wished I'd gone with the 24.9".

But after receiving the X20 I have found the 24.6" scale to be perfect. It gives the guitar an intimacy that I was looking for. I think you definitely sacrifice a little volume with the shorter scale so if you don't plug in that might be a consideration for you. But other than that I have found it to be exactly what I'd hoped and envisioned.

You can read my full review by clicking down in my sig line.
Non-guitar players might think 9/10 of an inch is no big deal. Nice that Emerald is able to offer options with scale and neck profile.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:16 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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I concur with Methos that 24.6" seems to be a magic number.

My X20-12 is a 24.6" scale length and I really like it -- well worth the upcharge to get a custom scale. My Blackbird Lucky 13 is 24.75" and that is nice too. We have a Cargo at 22.75" and that feels too cramped for me. I regularly play 25.5" scale guitars (Taylor, Rainsong) but I'm steadily moving toward shorter scales with recent acquisitions.

Among the "old-fangled" wooden guitars, I have a Teton parlor at 24.25" scale and a hair less than 1.75" nut width (it's also a twelve fret). It is fun to play and quite comfy, but I can tell the difference between L13 and Teton -- only 1/2" different. It usually takes a couple of minutes to adjust. We also used to own a GS Mini at 23.5". I liked that better than the Cargo for scale length, but the wider neck on the Cargo sure beats the 1-11/16" Mini neck for my comfort.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Methos1979 View Post
Hi Tom,

I recently did a custom order for an X20. One of things I didn't like about the one I'd owned a few years back was the long scale. I was offered three short scales to choose from: 24.9, 24.6 and 24.0. I went with 24.6 based on Alistair's recommendation which he made based on the guitar I was playing at the time I made the order - a Santa Cruz 1929 00 with a 24.75" scale.

I was a little worried about this one aspect of my custom. I knew 24.0" would be too short for the X20 body which was affirmed after briefly owning an X7 with that scale. For a long time while waiting for the X20 build to finish I'd wished I'd gone with the 24.9" because it was a known quantity and the same as my Martin 000-18GE Custom.

But after receiving the X20 I have found the 24.6" scale to be perfect. It gives the guitar an intimacy that I was looking for. I think you definitely sacrifice a little volume with the shorter scale so if you don't plug in that might be a consideration for you. But other than that I have found it to be exactly what I'd hoped and envisioned.

You can read my full review by clicking down in my sig line.
Interesting insight. Thanks Methos! The X20 is widely reported as being quite loud for its size, at least to the player in part because of the soundhole design. If I would opt for a shorter scale, even if a little quieter, I hope the guitar is still considered as being plenty loud, perhaps louder than one might expect.

Also, do the strings feel a little slinkier/less tense than the full scale? Thx.
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'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
I concur with Methos that 24.6" seems to be a magic number.

My X20-12 is a 24.6" scale length and I really like it -- well worth the upcharge to get a custom scale. My Blackbird Lucky 13 is 24.75" and that is nice too. We have a Cargo at 22.75" and that feels too cramped for me. I regularly play 25.5" scale guitars (Taylor, Rainsong) but I'm steadily moving toward shorter scales with recent acquisitions.

Among the "old-fangled" wooden guitars, I have a Teton parlor at 24.25" scale and a hair less than 1.75" nut width (it's also a twelve fret). It is fun to play and quite comfy, but I can tell the difference between L13 and Teton -- only 1/2" different. It usually takes a couple of minutes to adjust. We also used to own a GS Mini at 23.5". I liked that better than the Cargo for scale length, but the wider neck on the Cargo sure beats the 1-11/16" Mini neck for my comfort.
Thanks Earl! Do you find more slinkiness/less tense strings at 24.6” compared to a full scale 12?
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'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
Non-guitar players might think 9/10 of an inch is no big deal. Nice that Emerald is able to offer options with scale and neck profile.
Yes, even much smaller increments can make a big difference for a player...particularly so as we get older and more aware of comfort needs. Funny how that works! It is great that Emerald is so accommodating.
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'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:12 AM
Frettingflyer Frettingflyer is offline
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Tom,
I have the X20 artisan 25.5 scale length, and wish I had opted for a shorter length. The good news is Methos has offered to let me try his, and I will have my standard x20 there so we can compare side by side for you, probably in the next 2 weeks, fwiw.
I also have 2 Taylor GA’s with the 25.5 scale length and I absolutely feel a difference when playing, but can’t really figure out why. The strings are the same at the moment (Elixir PB lights) and “tighter” may be the correct description of the X20 feel vs. the Taylor. For me, I find that on the rare day I can play 3 hours or more my fingers really hurt if playing the X20 but not my Rainsong, Blackbird or Taylor’s.
So, I am thinking the shorter scale may be the way for me, and thanks to Methos I should know for sure soon. And we will be able to tell you if there is a noticeable volume loss as well.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:39 AM
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Tom,
I have the X20 artisan 25.5 scale length, and wish I had opted for a shorter length. The good news is Methos has offered to let me try his, and I will have my standard x20 there so we can compare side by side for you, probably in the next 2 weeks, fwiw.
I also have 2 Taylor GA’s with the 25.5 scale length and I absolutely feel a difference when playing, but can’t really figure out why. The strings are the same at the moment (Elixir PB lights) and “tighter” may be the correct description of the X20 feel vs. the Taylor. For me, I find that on the rare day I can play 3 hours or more my fingers really hurt if playing the X20 but not my Rainsong, Blackbird or Taylor’s.
So, I am thinking the shorter scale may be the way for me, and thanks to Methos I should know for sure soon. And we will be able to tell you if there is a noticeable volume loss as well.
Perfect! I’ll be very glad to learn from your collective insight. Please post your thoughts to this thread. Thanks Dave, and Methos!
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'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:51 AM
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Interesting insight. Thanks Methos! The X20 is widely reported as being quite loud for its size, at least to the player in part because of the soundhole design. If I would opt for a shorter scale, even if a little quieter, I hope the guitar is still considered as being plenty loud, perhaps louder than one might expect.

Also, do the strings feel a little slinkier/less tense than the full scale? Thx.
Yes, the strings are quite definitely slinkier/less tense than the full scale. Volume is more difficult to describe. It's been years since I've owned the full scale X20 so all I have to compare it do is my current and recent guitars which are extremely lightly built and very resonant all wood guitars. Add to that I only play fingerstyle with the meat of my fingertips and that makes for an even quieter playing experience. But I wouldn't call it a quiet guitar by any means. Nor would I call it a loud guitar.

I'm planning doing another post very soon (perhaps today) detailing my impressions of my X20 custom two weeks in. Check back for that as I'll have some additional interesting observations and insights.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:09 AM
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Yes, the strings are quite definitely slinkier/less tense than the full scale. Volume is more difficult to describe. It's been years since I've owned the full scale X20 so all I have to compare it do is my current and recent guitars which are extremely lightly built and very resonant all wood guitars. Add to that I only play fingerstyle with the meat of my fingertips and that makes for an even quieter playing experience. But I wouldn't call it a quiet guitar by any means. Nor would I call it a loud guitar.

I'm planning doing another post very soon (perhaps today) detailing my impressions of my X20 custom two weeks in. Check back for that as I'll have some additional interesting observations and insights.
Thanks! I’m also a bare fingerpicker/strummer playing mainly classic folk/rock covers and originals. I think I’d be willing to sacrafice a bit of volume in favor of less string tension. I assume you’re not experiencing any buzz. Did you specify a preferred string height at the 12th? I look forward to reading your further impressions.
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'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:21 AM
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Thanks! I’m also a bare fingerpicker/strummer playing mainly classic folk/rock covers and originals. I think I’d be willing to sacrafice a bit of volume in favor of less string tension. I assume you’re not experiencing any buzz. Did you specify a preferred string height at the 12th? I look forward to reading your further impressions.
I did not specify a specific string height or general action, another thing I worried a little about but the action did come in fairly low or at least very similar to my Martin. I have experienced no string buzzing other than that which occurs from my admittedly poor playing technique.

I'm actually working on the new post so that will be posted in short order. I was thinking of waiting until later in week next week as I want to record a video of the guitar both acoustically and plugged in but I can always do that then and just add the video to the post later. Since it's freaking arctic-cold here today again and we're not venturing out I've got the time to write the post!

As an FYI for you and any others here that want to hear the guitar, I actually have already made a couple demo videos of the guitar acoustically that are posted on YouTube. If you click the link down in my sig line for our acoustic duo Facebook page there are three videos links to YouTube posted on there, one of them with the X20.

Once on the YouTube page there are a total of three song videos with the X20. These are all 'unplugged' with my wife singing and just recorded with my cell phone so the audio quality is far from great but you can at least hear a few examples of it played with delicate fingerpicking.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Methos1979 View Post
I did not specify a specific string height or general action, another thing I worried a little about but the action did come in fairly low or at least very similar to my Martin. I have experienced no string buzzing other than that which occurs from my admittedly poor playing technique.

I'm actually working on the new post so that will be posted in short order. I was thinking of waiting until later in week next week as I want to record a video of the guitar both acoustically and plugged in but I can always do that then and just add the video to the post later. Since it's freaking arctic-cold here today again and we're not venturing out I've got the time to write the post!

As an FYI for you and any others here that want to hear the guitar, I actually have already made a couple demo videos of the guitar acoustically that are posted on YouTube. If you click the link down in my sig line for our acoustic duo Facebook page there are three videos links to YouTube posted on there, one of them with the X20.

Once on the YouTube page there are a total of three song videos with the X20. These are all 'unplugged' with my wife singing and just recorded with my cell phone so the audio quality is far from great but you can at least hear a few examples of it played with delicate fingerpicking.
Thanks again. I hear ya about the deep cold. I’m in the Ottawa, Ontario area and my wife and I are about to leave our place in a few minutes to head to the airport to fly to our vacation home in Fort Myers Beach until the end of April. Can’t wait to get out of this freezer! I’ll be checking out your videos...looking forward to it.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:16 AM
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Thanks again. I hear ya about the deep cold. I’m in the Ottawa, Ontario area and my wife and I are about to leave our place in a few minutes to head to the airport to fly to our vacation home in Fort Myers Beach until the end of April. Can’t wait to get out of this freezer! I’ll be checking out your videos...looking forward to it.
Lucky you! Got a spare bedroom for two frozen New Englanders?!?
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:29 PM
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I just arrived at my place in SW Florida and am having trouble with my ISP here (reactivating seasonal account), so I may not be able to be on the forum much, if at all until I can get things rectified. For whatever reason, it could take a while. I look forward to being able to interact as soon as I’m consistently able.
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