Black Richlite

[StrumFu]

Originally Posted by BlackmoresNight

So lets say there is a guitar made from an artificial material that is more expensive than wood, and you like the sound of it better. Why should it be lower in price?

Originally Posted by StrumFu

Is there such a thing?

Originally Posted by BlackmoresNight

Carbon fiber would be the most common example. I'm wouldn't be surprised if thhere have been earlier acoustics made out of artificial materials, and I'm sure other materials will be tried in the future.

Yes, but that is only half of your equation. It would need to sound better than the high end, all wood counterpart. Don't think I've heard one yet that can do that. Sound pretty good, yes. Record well, yes. Impervious to weather, yes. Sound better than a high end, all wood guitar, no. Maybe some time in the future it will happen. Hasn't yet though. I would also question whether CF (as a material, not the expenses to work it into a guitar) is actually more expensive than top notch wood.

[StrumFu]

Originally Posted by zhunter

Not my favorite acoustic but I have played Rainsongs that sounded better than many wood counterparts. And they certainly cost more! Strangely enough if the Rainsong had just a little less ring, I might have to try one. But then I'm not a big Taylor fan either.

hunter

I don't doubt that CF guitars can sound better to some than this wood guitar, or that wood guitar. But the question is, can I find a wood guitar that sounds better than every CF guitar? I believe one could do that without issue.

[brucefulton]

Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

All of the Martin X Series guitars have Formica (HPL) back and sides.

HPL is similar in composition to, but not the same as, formica.

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by StrumFu

Yes, but that is only half of your equation. It would need to sound better than the high end, all wood counterpart. Don't think I've heard one yet that can do that. Sound pretty good, yes. Record well, yes. Impervious to weather, yes. Sound better than a high end, all wood guitar, no. Maybe some time in the future it will happen. Hasn't yet though. I would also question whether CF (as a material, not the expenses to work it into a guitar) is actually more expensive than top notch wood.

I'm sorry, but that isn't a judgement you can make for everyone. Better, when it comes to tone, is a subjective judgement that the individual can only make for themselves. And some people do prefer the tone of carbon fiber over wood.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by StrumFu

I don't doubt that CF guitars can sound better to some than this wood guitar, or that wood guitar. But the question is, can I find a wood guitar that sounds better than every CF guitar? I believe one could do that without issue.

Well that is a different question from your initial question.

There are some wood and nomex composite double top nylons that many would consider to produce sound on par with the highest echelon solid wood top nylons. And even if someone set out to build a carbon fiber that sounded better, that would be at best subjective judgement. To some, the Rainsong may already be there.

hunter

[C.F. Angee]

I share the traditionalist sentiment against artificial materials and design: I play a Spanish guitar and a Martin dread, not a plastic uke and an Ovation. That said, I am a fan of Richlite.

Purist concerns:
The plastic horse is way out of the barn. Martin has been binding their boxes with cellulose or plastic since -- I believe -- the 1920s. Pick guards haven't been any natural material for at least that long. The herringbone binding HD-28 owners love, for instance, is multi-colored, patterned plastic instead of the plain white plastic on my MMV.

Naturally, the concern is elevated when dealing with a fingerboard, compared to a mere ornamental binding (which has as its highest functional purposes to seal end grain against moisture and protect a corner against damage).

Feel:
While I rank ebony highest, I think Richlite is preferable to many of the Rosewood fingerboards you'll find these days. It is hard, smooth, and has otherwise a nice feel to my fingers.

Appearance:
Richlite is solid black with a subtle grainy brushed texture that avoids looking like plastic. It looks like the smoothest, tightest ebony ever, if you don't look too close and notice the missing pores. Again, I think it is superior to many of the rosewood samples I see these days.

Tone:
If there is a tonal difference, it surpasses my ability to distinguish it. Others say they hear it. They'll need to pony up for a wood fingerboard.

Sustainability:
Richlite is paper and resin. It doesn't contribute to the overharvesting of tropical trees. A bonus, in my opinion.

[StrumFu]

Well, I have heard many proponents of CF guitars over the years. And always hear them tout the benefits of stable tunings, and that they are not subject to humidity changes. Toughness on the road. Good ability to record because of the sterile, articulate nature of the sound. Some do sound very nice. And have great attributes. But I haven't heard anyone say yet that any particular CF guitar was the best sounding guitar they have ever heard. I guess I misspoke when I inferred "everyone". I know there is no issue in the world that "everyone" agrees on.

[StrumFu]

Originally Posted by zhunter

Well that is a different question from your initial question.

There are some wood and nomex composite double top nylons that many would consider to produce sound on par with the highest echelon solid wood top nylons. And even if someone set out to build a carbon fiber that sounded better, that would be at best subjective judgement. To some, the Rainsong may already be there.

hunter

I guess those fine examples would fall in to wood guitar camp, and the not completely composite guitar camp. Agreed sound is completely subjective. I misspoke when I inferred that anyone could find a better sounding wood guitar than any CF example. Just for fun, what do you think? What is the best sounding guitar you have heard? An all CF? Or a wood guitar?

[brucefulton]

Originally Posted by StrumFu

I guess those fine examples would fall in to wood guitar camp, and the not completely composite guitar camp. Agreed sound is completely subjective. I misspoke when I inferred that anyone could find a better sounding wood guitar than any CF example. Just for fun, what do you think? What is the best sounding guitar you have heard? An all CF? Or a wood guitar?

No guitar I have ever heard is the best sounding guitar I have ever heard, because not every composition's qualities are maximized by a single instrument, different styles of playing are best accommodated by different qualities of timber and balance, and no two venues have identical acoustical signatures.

[StrumFu]

Originally Posted by brucefulton

No guitar I have ever heard is the best sounding guitar I have ever heard, because not every composition's qualities are maximized by a single instrument, different styles of playing are best accommodated by different qualities of timber and balance, and no two venues have identical acoustical signatures.

That is a good way to hedge the debate. I did also state a few posts ago that they shine in certain instances. I get that everyone has their opinions on the subject. More power to them. That's why they produce such a vast array of guitars. Think CF and Richlite are the best, go for it. Speaking on Richlite, I wouldn't let it keep me from a guitar I wanted, but given the choice, would choose high quality wood.

[mr. beaumont]

A student of mine has a Martin with a black Richlite fingerboard.

Feels like ebony. Unless you look really close, it looks like ebony. I dunno. I think it's a great fretboard material.

I'd like to hear from someone who's had to refret it, though.

[matt986]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

A student of mine has a Martin with a black Richlite fingerboard.

Feels like ebony. Unless you look really close, it looks like ebony. I dunno. I think it's a great fretboard material.

I'd like to hear from someone who's had to refret it, though.

This guy seems to like working with the Richlite. Page through his album to see some great detail of a refret.

http://www.renchguitarwerks.com/www...._GPCPA4.html#1

[GTRGUY005]

Originally Posted by matt986

This guy seems to like working with the Richlite. Page through his album to see some great detail of a refret.

http://www.renchguitarwerks.com/www...._GPCPA4.html#1

He loves it. He stated several times that it is great to work with. He pulled and replaced all the frets easily with no chipping of the board.

I have a OOO MMV with a richlite board/bridge and I like it was well. It looks and feels nice.

[Dreadful]

Richlite has been used at my place of employment for years in various tooling applications such as forming blocks and models. It is dimensionaly stable with temperature and humidity changes, machines well, is durable, and basically doesn't crack. Density is slightly higher with Richlite than ebony, 76 lbs cuft to about 62, which could be a concern with bridge use. I don't know of acoustic properties such as damping.

I don't have any guitars with Richlite.

[Trevor B.]

Originally Posted by Willie Voltaire

Why doesn't anybody ever complain about plastic binding and plastic pickguards and plastic tuner buttons and plastic dot markers?

Hey Willie,
I frequently do and would rather have a Richlite fretboard than plastic (ivoroid) binding.

Trevor