A dead string- what I think I heard

[vindibona1]

This morning I attempted to reainstall a previously used set of DR Sunbeams, knowing full well that one or more strings could be dead from such an attempt. I was right. The low E lost its lustre, but the rest of the strings sounded fresh and crisp. In a way, the sound of that one string reminded me of a D-18 with old strings. Just no resonance. But as the rest of the strings were fine I decided to leave it as until it's time to play that guitar at the next gig, at least two weeks away.

But as I tried to tune that dead low E string I'm looking at the tuner. The tuner says it's in tune, but aurally I cannot tell if it's sharp or flat. Actually it seems as if I'm hearing overtones that are not in tune with the fundamental. It's like I can sort of get it in tune, but it doesn't sound fully in tune, but it is obvious that the overtones are fighting the fundamental... which make sense for a dead string. If the fundamentals and overtones were perfectly aligned there would be more resonance and sustain- just like the other strings that were still lively, no?

Does anyone else hear or recognize this phenomenon when strings go dead?

[stormin1155]

A bad string can produce a variety of undesirable effects... buzzing, tuning issues. I'm a tech with my own shop, and sometimes I'll run across a guitar that I just can't get rid of a buzz or just can't intonate. It happened just a couple days ago... a pesky buzz on the A string... the frets were level, the setup was good... no apparent reason why it should buzz. So I replaced that string and the problem went away.

This seems to happen to about one out of a hundred sets... maybe less, usually a wound string, and often if you examine the string closely you'll find some flaw... uneven winding usually. I've encountered this across many brands. I'll always write to the company about the problem, and they'll usually send out a fresh replacement set.

[Wade Hampton]

No matter what the string may or may not have been doing, to me it illustrates the overall futility of trying to reuse strings that have once been on a guitar. Yes, they can be made to function - sort of - but they never sound very good.

If used strings sounded great, as if given new life by having been given a little vacation from duty, then MAYBE it would be worth the hassle of reattaching them to the tuner posts. But as it is they're difficult to restring. As you fumble with putting them back on the tuners it's much easier to jab yourself with the jagged string ends than not, and once they're finally back on and tuned to pitch, they sound lousy.

Like death warmed over.

I understand the frugal impulse that motivates most players who reuse strings, and salute you for it. But I've never heard good tonal results from strings that have been reused, not once.


Wade Hampton Miller

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

If used strings sounded great, as if given new life by having been given a little vacation from duty, then MAYBE it would be worth the hassle of reattaching them to the tuner posts. But as it is they're difficult to restring. As you fumble with putting them back on the tuners it's much easier to jab yourself with the jagged string ends than not, and once they're finally back on and tuned to pitch, they sound lousy.

One of the basic Dwasifarizing patents addresses this problem. I've developed a special "Memory Metal™" string material. When heated, either in a microwave or in a conventional oven, the strings regain their original shape; all the kinks and coils from previous installation on a guitar straighten out. Impurities and corrosion bake away, and you're left with a new-looking, new-sounding string that's ready to reinstall. (Plus which, in the microwave, the sparks and arcs spell out the company name if you do it with the lights off.)

Many famous artists use them now, which is why you see so many people waving guitars around onstage with a wild thicket of uncut strings bristling from the headstock. Sure, occasionally someone loses an eye, but you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

Wade, didn't you read the marketing packet I sent you when you bought into our partnership?

[nickv6]

I think DR are roundcore strings (?).
All strings wear flat spots where they contact the frets. These flatspots affect the vibrations and muck up the proper harmonics. Roundcore are more prone than hexacore to extreme harmonic changes.
There's no way you can get round it.And, when you restring, the chances of the flatspots coinciding with the position of the frets is minute, making the effect even worse as the flatspots are now always within the freely vibrating part of the string.
Nick

[rick-slo]

Overtones are always a bit sharp on strings and that increases as the string's stiffness increases (thus the 6th string's overtones are the furthest off). Naturally are ears are pretty much used to that. An old used string can have uneven wear or accumulated grime which further throws things off.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by nickv6

I think DR are roundcore strings (?).

Not all DR strings are, but the Sunbeams OP is using are round core.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

No matter what the string may or may not have been doing, to me it illustrates the overall futility of trying to reuse strings that have once been on a guitar. Yes, they can be made to function - sort of - but they never sound very good.
Wade Hampton Miller

No offense meant, but I'm going to partially disagree with you Wade. I have successfully re-used strings many, many times with only a few no-go's along the way (not to be confused with having used the same set many, many times ). I knew with Sunbeams in particular the chance of killing off one or more strings was better than even due to the round core. I've got 5 strings that still sound very good, like they've barely been used (they've been played for 7 days). Not new, but in that settled sweet-spot area. I'm surprised I didn't kill off more strings. Sometimes a person wants to try the same set on multiple guitars and buying a fresh set for every test goes beyond "frugal" and can be more than a little expensive. Besides, once a string set is played in, it stays that way and once reinstalled they find their sweet spot in a few hours rather than a few days.

My point was to focus on the sonic properties and intonation issues of the dead string. It's given that a dead string lacks vibrance and resonance. I was surprised to hear the overtones so much more out of tune with the fundamental. The point was to identifiy at least one of the possible properties of strings when they are dead. Perhaps I've never recognized the intonation/tuning issue before because as a rule I don't let me strings get that far gone. I thought it noteworthy as I wasn't able to tune that low E properly.

So as far as the dead low E goes... It seemed pointless to keep the Sunbeams, so were replaced by a previously used set of GHS Signature Bronze strings that at one time were played in for a few days of testing. I'd have no problem taking this guitar out with these re-used strings today on a gig. They sound great. Aurally you'd never suspect they weren't new strings that were simply "settleld". In many cases you CAN successfully reuse strings if you're careful when taking them off, storing them and reinstalling them. The key is to try to avoid disturbing the windings of the wound strings and avoiding trying to unbend/rebend the bare strings as much as possible to try to avoid as much metal fatigue as possible. It has been my experience in reusing string sets MULTIPLE TIMES, that it's more likely that you'll break a string due to metal fatigue before you kill it's sonic properties if the amount of time played is minimal. Same thing goes for loosening to replace bridge pins. Strings can usually take 3 times being totally loosened before they want to break.

[sdelsolray]

I have no experience with reusing removed strings. Once installed, I leave strings on an instrument until they reach end life. Once removed, I put them in the recycling bin.

[DesertTwang]

I have no idea about this overtone-vs-fundamental business with old strings (partially due to the fact that I still don't really understand the physical concept behind all that frequency stuff and I'm not sure I could recognize the difference between the two with my ears), BUT:

I, too, salute the OP -- it is seriously refreshing and delightful to see someone use the word "phenomenon" correctly, in times when the vast majority of the population would use "phenomena" instead, ignorant of the fact that it's reserved to denote the plural.

Thank you!

[musicman1951]

It sounds like a plausible explanation for intonation issues being a good indicator that it's time to change the strings.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

It sounds like a plausible explanation for intonation issues being a good indicator that it's time to change the strings.

That's my assessment, as well.


whm

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

It sounds like a plausible explanation for intonation issues being a good indicator that it's time to change the strings.

It may be for some folk. Metaphorically it's like going outside into -50°F weather and saying "it's cold". Perhaps I've rarely if ever experienced a string that dead before on one of my guitars as I change strings long before they get that dead. But perhaps it also partially explains how the character of the sound begins to change, before I can identify harmonic intonation issues, but is my signal that it's time to change strings.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

This morning I attempted to reainstall a previously used set of DR Sunbeams, knowing full well that one or more strings could be dead from such an attempt. I was right. The low E lost its lustre, but the rest of the strings sounded fresh and crisp. In a way, the sound of that one string reminded me of a D-18 with old strings. Just no resonance. But as the rest of the strings were fine I decided to leave it as until it's time to play that guitar at the next gig, at least two weeks away.

But as I tried to tune that dead low E string I'm looking at the tuner. The tuner says it's in tune, but aurally I cannot tell if it's sharp or flat. Actually it seems as if I'm hearing overtones that are not in tune with the fundamental. It's like I can sort of get it in tune, but it doesn't sound fully in tune, but it is obvious that the overtones are fighting the fundamental... which make sense for a dead string. If the fundamentals and overtones were perfectly aligned there would be more resonance and sustain- just like the other strings that were still lively, no?

Does anyone else hear or recognize this phenomenon when strings go dead?

I experienced exactly the same thing with my most recent set of DR Sunbeams - these were not a re-install however. I play this guitar only at weekends as it is not with me during the week. I began to notice the same as you - I couldn't get it in tune and intonation was poor (something I have not experienced with this guitar ever before)

Eventually I changed the set out for a new set of Gibson's and everything was right again..

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I experienced exactly the same thing with my most recent set of DR Sunbeams - these were not a re-install however. I play this guitar only at weekends as it is not with me during the week. I began to notice the same as you - I couldn't get it in tune and intonation was poor (something I have not experienced with this guitar ever before)

Eventually I changed the set out for a new set of Gibson's and everything was right again..

I've gone through many sets of Sunbeams and for some guitars I love these strings. They can be a little sensitive to the winds shifting which causes dead strings. But I found this only on one occasion on new strings. I've previously successfully re-used Sunbeams, but understand the risk of removal/reinstallation as I know how they are built.

I love the Gibson Masterbuilt strings as well. They are similar to the Sunbeams initially, but I think the Masterbuilts settle a little warmer than the Sunbeams. On some guitars that could be a very good thing if the guitar starts out being bright. Right now I'm testing strings on a newly acquired Taylor 910 and haven't found "the strings" for this guitar. I'm searching for a balance between warm and articulate. Sunbeams are close. I found a very articulate string in SUS heavy (13-56) and were I a bluegrass player I might like these strings on it a lot. But others told me that they preferred the warmth of other strings.