Reducing belly bulge

[bosrocker51]

My comments were not meant to disparage. You are preaching to the choir about cheap guitars and putting "too much" money into them.
I have a 1965 Framus Texan without moustache bridge. Bought it on ebay for about $175 some years ago. It would not sound good because the bridge was not properly placed. Long story short, 3 luthiers and $700 later, I have a guitar worth about $300...

If I had it to do over again, I don't know if I would have ever taken it to a luthier. I can do work almost as good, will not damage it (I'm talking to you, Mr. Mouradian!!!) and I enjoy working on my own instruments

[Ken C]

Originally Posted by bosrocker51

My comments were not meant to disparage.

I understand that. I didn't mean to imply that you were being negative.

You are preaching to the choir about cheap guitars and putting "too much" money into them.
I have a 1965 Framus Texan without moustache bridge. Bought it on ebay for about $175 some years ago. It would not sound good because the bridge was not properly placed. Long story short, 3 luthiers and $700 later, I have a guitar worth about $300...

Wow! You are my sort of guy! <g>

If I had it to do over again, I don't know if I would have ever taken it to a luthier. I can do work almost as good, will not damage it (I'm talking to you, Mr. Mouradian!!!) and I enjoy working on my own instruments

As I do. I have taken a new rosewood J45 to my set-up guy for major rework, as well as a Korean arch-top jazz guitar, but they were new..older ones I will deal with myself, and yet, my beloved traveling companion, my trusty Silvertone, the one that has kept my head erect from Western Australia pubs to Canary Island cave drinking environments, I didn't have the heart to pull its neck and do a reset. I let a good guy in Austin, TX, do it.
The results are that the guitar is in better shape than when it came to live at my expense in 1963 (already near 10 years old), and now consider this -- some guy in 2060 will appreciate my thoughtfulness.
It is hard to think of many things that will give joy to others five decades in the future...but these are musical instruments.
Now THAT is mojo! <g>
Thanks for your comments.

[zabdart]

It depends on how much of a bulge you're talking about. As Larry and others have pointed out, most flat-top guitars are slightly arched for extra strength. Sometimes, however, this arching becomes severe over time, and other problems arise, like glue joints becoming loose on the bridge, bride pad or even the top braces. If that happens repairs on in order. Usually the "bubble" arch will occur behind the bridge. If you know a good repairman, he can fix that by adding an extra diagonal tone bar behind the bridge. It's a tricky operation, though. Depending on who's doing it and how skilled he is, you might get a tonal change from it.

[Ken C]

Originally Posted by zabdart

It depends on how much of a bulge you're talking about. As Larry and others have pointed out, most flat-top guitars are slightly arched for extra strength. Sometimes, however, this arching becomes severe over time, and other problems arise, like glue joints becoming loose on the bridge, bride pad or even the top braces. If that happens repairs on in order. Usually the "bubble" arch will occur behind the bridge. If you know a good repairman, he can fix that by adding an extra diagonal tone bar behind the bridge. It's a tricky operation, though. Depending on who's doing it and how skilled he is, you might get a tonal change from it.

This is all very true and describes the more common condition when bracing is some "X" form. The "X" is crossing between sound hole and bridge and that area is likely to stay flat.
If, however, the bracing is the old ladder bracing, the "rolling" of the bridge will start arching the top behind the bridge but it will also start pushing down the area infront of the bridge.
This will actually distort the sound hole. The top could crack from sound hole to bridge in a dry guitar.
If this condition (with "X" bracing) is caught soon enough, the Bridge Doctor could help; with the ladder braced tops, I could see no changes using the Bridge Doctor.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by bosrocker51

I know this is an older thread, but I have to comment. A well made flat top guitar should never have the top deform, bridge tilt forward or any such thing if it is well made, properly braced and it is not abused with strings that greatly exceed it's capability to retain.

OK bos…
This just is not true.

All well made guitars - and in particular the ones which are braced a bit lighter to be responsive - will lift behind the bridge; especially behind the bass side. It's normal and natural, and not dangerous nor a sign of poor build or quality. It's not a defect, but a characteristic of being a guitar.

This 'deformation' will also cause the bridge to tilt ever so slightly forward requiring a slight intonation adjustment. It's inevitable. Builders even lean into it by building a slight backward tilt to the saddle so as the guitar ages, the saddle straightens.

While some tops are cambered for strength, even they will lift a bit more and even a really well built true flat top Olson guitar (I have one that is 18 ½ yrs old) will lift behind the bass side of the bridge to look like the top was built with a radius. I've had a discussion with James Olson about this...and about mine in particular. He assured me it's normal, and to be expected.

I do realize building a guitar which is responsive is a game of compromises - not reducing the quality but balancing quick attack versus response times, and highlighting projection etc.

But if you get out an 18'' straight edge and lay it across the top of a well built acoustic guitar with a solid top (right behind the bridge area), you will find that there is bump/bulge/lift there.

Could it be prevented?
Sure, but I think the guitar would have to be braced like a HumVee. That would certainly reduce the responsiveness in some way to counteract the characteristic bump. Personally I don't want several ounces of trussing inside my guitar hanging down to counter this 'imaginary' enemy.

If the bracing in front of the soundhole gives way, or a major brace under the bridge area cracks, that can result in a dangerous condition, but that will show itself by the inside of the soundhole dipping down.

The dipping from injury is totally different than a natural bump behind the bridge caused either by radiused building or string tension.

[DrBromiAndufEwd]

I've found that laying off beer and other empty calories really helps minimize belly bulge....Im just sayin....

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by DrBromiAndufEwd

I've found that laying off beer and other empty calories really helps minimize belly bulge....Im just sayin....

Hi DrB…
We sure hope they don't have to send you to a 'bridge doctor'.

[zabdart]

Originally Posted by DrBromiAndufEwd

I've found that laying off beer and other empty calories really helps minimize belly bulge....Im just sayin....

Yeah, but what fun is that?!?

[DrBromiAndufEwd]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi DrB…
We sure hope they don't have to send you to a 'bridge doctor'.

Sounds painful! I'll stick with the bulge.

[Gypsyblue]

I had a real problem with high action and a big belly on my "new" '95 Taylor 512 when it arrived. Turned out the bridge was loose. I took it to Woodsongs in Boulder, Colorado and Matt removed the bridge, did some work on it, and reglued it. Cured the high action and the big belly.

[DrBromiAndufEwd]

Originally Posted by zabdart

Yeah, but what fun is that?!?

I figure as long as i can still reach the strings and at least 12 frets...im gonna keep on eatin and drinkin what i want.

[steveyam]

I have fitted a number of Bridge Doctors and in general I have found that they do not do much to remove the bulge (as such) or lower the string action. What do very well is make the bulge a more 'overall' effect with no taught, distorted seams each side of the bridge arching downwards and outwards. After fitting the BD the bulge is now a much more subtle, overall 'lift' from the sound hole downwards. The tone and volume after fitting the bridge doctor are much improved as, again, the taught sections are liberated and the top is able to vibrate more freely. I have tried different ways of 'implementing' the BD once fitted; 'walking' the peg down towards the bottom of the guitar, or even keeping the peg's contact point higher so as to be pushing 'downwards' more. These efforts seem to have limited effect on reducing the overall bulge height. But generally, I am a believer in BDs, they restore form and tone, but sadly, they don't seem to lower the overall height of the bridge much, if at all, they just make it level by removing its forward lean.

[johnbaz]

Hi all


Digging up an old thread here but I recently found a beautiful Japanese acoustic guitar, It looked like Zebrano back and sides with a solid spruce top, the purfling, rosette and name on the headstock are all Abalone and the guitar oozes quality, Trouble is that it has the belly bulge

I also have an old Harmony Sovereign with exactly the same complaint!

It looks as if both guitars are collapsing in on themselves, Action is very high up the fretboard and the neck end of the table is sinking whilst the bridge end is bulging!!

The guitar would be a very cheap one barring for this problem!! (£50) Trouble is that it looks like i'll have to retire due to Arthritis so have decided not to buy it and have to spend loads to get the action down and playable



John

[Pheof]

Cut down on sweets, snack and alcohol. Exercise 30 minutes a day most days of the week. Eat 2/3 fruits and vegetables, 1/3 lean meat. Let yourself laugh, laughter is a potent healer of all manner of disease.

[Francho]

I purchased an old 1974 Yamaki Folk Deluxe 112 that had a bulge in the sound board and made for high action at the bottom of the neck. Apparently a common problem with these guitars but hey it is 41 years old and at that age everyone deserves to be able to have a bulge in their midriff. I have the guitar in Mexico and travel between there and Canada. Here is how I fixed it with awesome results and no cost whatsoever. Just before I left for six weeks back to work in the oil patch I de-tensioned the strings and wet the inside of the sound board reaching in through the sound hole with a soaked rag. I then placed a cribbage board which was long enough to bridge the entire sound board on a table and laid the guitar sound board down aligning the bulge at the saddle with the cribbage board and shimmed up the neck so the sound board was 90 degrees to cribbage board. I then place a weight (a 30 lb cash register from my ex wifes defunct clothing boutique) on a flat board on the back of the guitar above the bulge forcing the sound board flat. When I came back the sound board was as Steve Earle says "Straighter than a preacher". It was a hail Mary maneuver that gave perfect results. Give her a whirl. What have you got to lose?