Thinking about a RS Shorty....

[JerryM]

Just returned home a few hours ago from a Bluegrass meet in Central Or. It was a four day meet and was great except I ended up not being able to play the last two days due to weather conditions. Played for 3 hours the first day with my Martin OO and everything was great, until I got back to my RV to wait for the next set and saw the hygrometer reading 2%!!!!! I freaked out and put my Martin in the case where it stayed the rest of the meet, still had a good time but had to cancel all my scheduled playing. Bummer! The Humidipaks in my case were starting to get solid after two days!
So now I realize I am going to need to invest in another CF guitar or be grounded. The humidity never got higher than 28% and that was only for a few hours in the morning.
I contacted Ted about a Rainsong while I was there but had a couple of questions for those of you who own one. The shorty seems to be the one that would most likely fit flat picking best, my question concerns Graphite?? How does this fit in with Carbon Fiber? In the RS site they say their new non braced top is the loudest that they have ever made, and a graphite neck. They also claim a super low action can be had with no buzz? This is what I need as fast fiddle tunes require ease of play and fast action.
I don't mind a heavy neck as all my guitars are V shapes. I also like the truss rod idea for fine tuning, one thing the Blackbird I had did not have. Also I did not care for the soundport on top.
I am most interested in the quality of tone on the new shorty, I do not want a brilliant or brittle sound, I need good bass and clean mellow highs. Will the shorty fill this bill? I don't need or want electronics. I mic the guitar on stage.
Any and all opinions are welcome, I don't want to make a poor choice here, also I would like to get something more traditional looking such as a sunburst.
Thanks in advance........Jerry

[AZLiberty]

While my Shorty is fairly loud, it's not what I would take to play Bluegrass. It's a fairly small guitar, a somewhat thin bodied OM with a short scale neck.

Why not a Rainsong Dread? Either a Concert or Hybrid series?

[FlyFast]

My Shorty is my favorite guitar but I don't play bluegrass. I'd saw it has as much punch as any similarly size guitar.
You asked about graphite and carbon and they are the same thing. The hybrid models combine glass and carbon for what I consider to be a warmer sound.
Your best best is to play one. You can't go wrong dealing with Ted!

[ukejon]

I would think that a CO-DR1000N2 might do the trick.

[RP]

Having both a shorty and a dread, I would think that a dread would be the way to go....

[steelvibe]

I'm a Shorty owner, and while I absolutely love it, I'm more of a fingerstyle and strumming kind of guy. The dread recommendations are spot on. Don't forget about the WS size for a larger but more comparable body size to the Shorty or go full out with a J model (although your band mates might resent you since they can't hear themselves play, or think for that matter, the RainSong Jumbos have a reputation for being the loudest guitars on the planet).

Here is an older but very insightful thread about playing bluegrass on a RainSong
that even Ted at LAGS chimed in on

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=295234

[JerryM]

Thanks guys for the good words, and I hear you loud and clear, however since two back surgerys I am no longer able to sit with a dread, sold a Vintage D Bourgeois and a D2 Collings a year ago due to my heath related issues. Went to the OO size and my issues have been resolved. Anything larger than a 15" lower bout is out for me.
My OO Martin cuts thru and is great playing along side a banjo, so I don't think the size is the problem. We use mic's so the sound guy can bring it up fine.
We are not allowed amplified in the venue but I have been thinking this evening perhaps I should consider getting the electronics, I could use them when I can and just leave unplugged when I can't would be a option. I don't think it would change the acoustic only sound?
I spent about 2 hours last night on the tube looking and so on and noticed the APLE and am putting it on my list as well, seems to have everything one could want in that size guitar. I don't think they make it without built in pickup?
I also like the sunburst as it appears more like a traditional guitar.
If it weren't for doing so many outdoor gigs I would just use my wood, but this week made me realize they will not last in 0 to 2% humidity for very long. I need a solution.
Oregon high desert on most days has 0%, and this is where I play a lot.
I guess the carbon, graphite question was stupid, some refer back and forth and I thought maybe they were two different materials. Sorry for that one.
As far as Bluegrass is concerned many artists use OM and OO size on stage, such as Tim Obrien from HotRize my favorite band. In the mid country and southern states they don't have the no humidity problem just the opposite.
Well thanks again everyone appreciate the feedback, gonna be tough picking this one out.......Jerry

[Earl49]

Jerry, my WS-1000 goes to bluegrass jams all the time, and holds its own nicely. I have a friend with a DR-1000 dread, and while his dread is louder and noticeably bassier, I don't feel deprived of volume or tone in jam circles. I need to play with a strap almost 100% of the time, and when that isn't possible the guitar must sit on my left leg for right shoulder comfort. I cannot play a dreadnought that sits on my right leg any more, for more than a few minutes.

If you have comfort issues, there is no substitute for spending time (an hour or more) playing a shape to see how it works for you. Ted has a 72 hour (?) return policy if it really does not work for you.

Or get the dimensions and play something in wood that is close. Taylor GA and the WS-1000 are similar in body size, but the Rainsong is deeper at 5" versus 4-5/8". Or maybe it is road trip time. You mentioned eastern desert Oregon. The main store here in Boise has a variety of Composite Acoustics models - probably the largest stock in the northwest, with 15-20 in the warehouse. Or you might consider the Blackbird Lucky 13 - it is a 00 size and VERY comfortable to play. Hard to find those in stock anywhere, as they cannot build them fast enough, and delivery time is about three months.

As for the humidity, it takes hours - or even days - for extremely low environmental humidity to noticeably affect the wood. If you play for 3-4 hours and get it back in a case with damp sponges for a similar period, the guitar should be fine. With all due respect, you might have over-reacted a bit.

Carbon fiber and graphite are the same thing. Perhaps you are confusing CF versus hybrid in the Rainsong lexicon? Hybrid is a mix of CF and fiberglass (probably more fiberglass to keep cost down) and gives a rounder "woodier" tone - as does the unidirectional tops versus CF weave.

[Acousticado]

"Composite" is another term used interchangeably with Graphite and Carbon.

[NoodleFingers]

I love my RainSong. I was originally going to get the Shorty, but then I found out I could get a shorty neck on any of their guitars, so I decided to get the Concert in the same size so I could have the abalone rosette and shark inlays. I'm not normally a fan of fancy appointments, but these aren't really that fancy. And come on... SHARKS, MAN!!!

I do not think my RainSong sounds brittle at all. I love the tone. It is a little different from wood, but not as much as you would think.

If you order the Al Petteway, I think you have no choice but to get the electronics. But I think you can probably order a Shorty (or some other model in an OM size) with no electronics and with either the "tobacco burst" or "marine burst" finishes. You won't have the fancier 21:1 ratio tuners, but everything else should be the same or similar. And maybe they'll make you an APSE without electronics.

I do find my RainSong OM to be louder than a wood guitar of similar size. And the addition of a John Pearse armrest made it even a little louder.

I hope this helps. And good luck!

[mbrohl]

I don't think a few hours in the really dry air would have hurt your Martin as long as you got it back in a humidified case when you are done playing. Just make sure you always have fresh humidipacks with you just in case the others dry out like you said happened.

[Captain Jim]

I have a RainSong Shorty SG-FLE: with the sharks and an abalone rosette - it is sharp looking! That was a limited edition from Ted. The Shorty is a comfortable size and has a "piano-like" sound. Not brittle, not treble-y; nice balance.

I also have a Taylor 522ce 12-fret, which is very close in size and feel to the Shorty. The Shorty is louder. I generally play plugged in, but on the few occasions I've played acoustically with friends, the Shorty holds its own. Since getting it, the Shorty has been what I use when playing out.

For perspective (since we all have different tastes), until getting the Shorty, the previous 4 or 5 guitars I bought have been Taylors. I like the sound and the playability. The Shorty with the NS neck is a bit thicker than the typical Taylor neck (my preference). Not uncomfortable, but thicker.

Ted is the go-to guy for all things RainSong, and his guidance has always been spot-on in my dealings with him.

We do a lot of traveling, from the humid Gulf Coast to the Phoenix area desert - since getting the Shorty (and now an Emerald X7), the wood guitars stay where the humidity is controlled, the CF guitars get to travel. And once home, the CF guitars get played regularly, too.

Good luck with the search.

[Steve Christens]

Well I love CF guitars, so I certainly support your looking into one for your outdoor bluegrass jams.

But isn't anyone else going to point out that there was NO WAY the humidity in Oregon was 2%? The humidity in the Mojave desert gets down to maybe 10% at the lowest - and you're suggesting it was 2%, in Oregon? Methinks this was a false alarm due to a faulty hygrometer.

[Earl49]

Good point Steve. I took him at his word, and did not even go there. A faulty hygrometer is very likely. If it really were only 2% RH outdoors (!!) you would get zapped by static electricity when touching almost anything -- especially if wearing ANY synthetic fibers or walking on carpet -- and would have to drink fluids like crazy, not to mention dry throat and sinus problems. Our cats hate to be petted when the RH is below about 30% as their noses get zapped.

Here in Boise on the edge of the desert, we rarely see outdoor RH less than 15%, either on the hottest of dry summer days or the coldest winter days. Inside the house, the range runs from lows of ~30% up to 65% depending on the weather and use of heat / AC. I almost don't have to humidify guitars or ukulele, but old habits are hard to break....

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by JerryM

Just returned home a few hours ago from a Bluegrass meet in Central Or. It was a four day meet and was great except I ended up not being able to play the last two days due to weather conditions. Played for 3 hours the first day with my Martin OO and everything was great, until I got back to my RV to wait for the next set and saw the hygrometer reading 2%!!!!! I freaked out and put my Martin in the case where it stayed the rest of the meet, still had a good time but had to cancel all my scheduled playing. Bummer! The Humidipaks in my case were starting to get solid after two days!
So now I realize I am going to need to invest in another CF guitar or be grounded. The humidity never got higher than 28% and that was only for a few hours in the morning.
I contacted Ted about a Rainsong while I was there but had a couple of questions for those of you who own one. The shorty seems to be the one that would most likely fit flat picking best, my question concerns Graphite?? How does this fit in with Carbon Fiber? In the RS site they say their new non braced top is the loudest that they have ever made, and a graphite neck. They also claim a super low action can be had with no buzz? This is what I need as fast fiddle tunes require ease of play and fast action.
I don't mind a heavy neck as all my guitars are V shapes. I also like the truss rod idea for fine tuning, one thing the Blackbird I had did not have. Also I did not care for the soundport on top.
I am most interested in the quality of tone on the new shorty, I do not want a brilliant or brittle sound, I need good bass and clean mellow highs. Will the shorty fill this bill? I don't need or want electronics. I mic the guitar on stage.
Any and all opinions are welcome, I don't want to make a poor choice here, also I would like to get something more traditional looking such as a sunburst.
Thanks in advance........Jerry

The Rainsong OM models have a surprising amount of bass and great sustain. Again, Ted will get you headed in the right direction.