Instruments, amps & vocal setups??

strumminman · #1 11-15-2007, 04:48 PM

I have just recently purchased (2) amps, a 60W Genz Benz stereo and a Genz Benz Shen 100W with one 12" speaker & a tweeter. We are going to have an electric acoustic guitar and a violin w/pickup, and also a mic to hook to these amps. Can anyone recommend the best way to hook these up (which instrument to which amp, etc. and where should the mic be hooked up to?)? The mic will be used for vocals only. Thanks.

rmyAddison · #2 11-15-2007, 06:11 PM

Wow, a little tricky.

I use a GB Shen Pro with an extension cabinet as PA but you have two amps. Dealing with what you have, and if you are going to use as a PA, I would run the vocals to channel 1 of the Shen 100, and the acoustic electric to channel 2. Run the violin to channel 2 of the Shen 60.

Since the Shen 100 is stereo and has independent line outs per channel you can send a line out from channel 1 of the Shen 100 to channel 1 of the Shen 60.

Here's what you end up with. You can use the 2 cabinets left and right on stage as a surrogate PA. Channel 2 on both amps controls instruments, the guitar on the Shen 100 and the violin on the Shen 60, so you have an intrument coming our of each cabinet. Channel 1 on the Shen 100 controls the vocals but you have a send to channel 1 of the Shen 60 also, so channel 1 on the Shen 60 controls vocals on that side of the stage. Facing the stage this arrangement gives you the violin on one side out of the Shen 60, the guitar on the other side out of the Shen 100, and vocals out of both. Set you vocal level on the Shen 100 then turn up channel 1 on the Shen 60 until you have a nice balance of vocals out front.

Anyway, that what I would do unless the venue was really small, but this setup still gives you probably the best vocal fill and you adjust the instrument to taste.

Hope that helps. I think this makes sense with what you have to work with..........

strumminman · #3 11-18-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

Wow, a little tricky.

I use a GB Shen Pro with an extension cabinet as PA but you have two amps. Dealing with what you have, and if you are going to use as a PA, I would run the vocals to channel 1 of the Shen 100, and the acoustic electric to channel 2. Run the violin to channel 2 of the Shen 60.

Since the Shen 100 is stereo and has independent line outs per channel you can send a line out from channel 1 of the Shen 100 to channel 1 of the Shen 60.

Here's what you end up with. You can use the 2 cabinets left and right on stage as a surrogate PA. Channel 2 on both amps controls instruments, the guitar on the Shen 100 and the violin on the Shen 60, so you have an intrument coming our of each cabinet. Channel 1 on the Shen 100 controls the vocals but you have a send to channel 1 of the Shen 60 also, so channel 1 on the Shen 60 controls vocals on that side of the stage. Facing the stage this arrangement gives you the violin on one side out of the Shen 60, the guitar on the other side out of the Shen 100, and vocals out of both. Set you vocal level on the Shen 100 then turn up channel 1 on the Shen 60 until you have a nice balance of vocals out front.

Anyway, that what I would do unless the venue was really small, but this setup still gives you probably the best vocal fill and you adjust the instrument to taste.

Hope that helps. I think this makes sense with what you have to work with..........

Hey Rich...aprreciate your input. Now, I am a little "green" with setting up acoustics. I have never done this before. So, how would I "send" the vocals from line 1 on the Shen 100 to line 1 on Shen 60? Do I need another cable? If so, where do I run it from and to?

rmyAddison · #4 11-19-2007, 08:02 AM

On the back right of your amp there are three direct sends: channel 1, channel 2, and channel 1 & 2 summed. Use the channel 1 send, either 1/4" cable or XLR to the front channel 1 in of the Shen 60 and adjust the volume and eq to suit. DO NOT use the speaker sends, they are amplified.

drive-south · #5 11-19-2007, 12:14 PM

Another option is to get a small mixer. Plug all the instruments and mics into the mixer and use the stereo outs on the mixer to drive the 2 amps. Like a small PA.

Small mixers are very affordable now. You can get 8 channel mixers for well under $200.

strumminman · #6 11-19-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

On the back right of your amp there are three direct sends: channel 1, channel 2, and channel 1 & 2 summed. Use the channel 1 send, either 1/4" cable or XLR to the front channel 1 in of the Shen 60 and adjust the volume and eq to suit. DO NOT use the speaker sends, they are amplified.

Thanks again, Rich. Have a good one

strumminman · #7 11-19-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive-south

Another option is to get a small mixer. Plug all the instruments and mics into the mixer and use the stereo outs on the mixer to drive the 2 amps. Like a small PA.

Small mixers are very affordable now. You can get 8 channel mixers for well under $200.

I just may try this. Can you recommend a decent economical one for a first time user? I never ran a PA type system before. Thanks for your input.

Hotraman · #8 11-19-2007, 10:13 PM

PA mixers are a lot easier to use these days.
Most of them come with built in effects.
Rent before you buy.
Sounds like you have the makings of a cool sounding group.

rmyAddison · #9 11-20-2007, 06:17 AM

A mixer is not a bad idea but with only two instruments and 1 mike you don't need it and, a frequent arguement (constructive I hope) that I get in, really cheap electronics sound like crap.

The electronics in your GB's is going to be better/cleaner than a $100-200 mixer. I use my Shen Pro with an extension cabinet for PA for two reasons, it sounds fantastic (I don't need a mixer as a solo act), and to get a mixer and powered cabinets that sounds as good is at least 2-3 times the money to my ears.

Would a "good quality" mixer work for you, absolutley, but then you're getting away from working with what you have as a first option, you already have two different acoustic amps which is not optimal used as powered PA cabs. Try to make what you have do the job, and unless you are/become weekly giggers it is probably fine. If it doesn't work, then yes consider a PA but also benchmark it's sound against the Genz Benz amps. You will need to spend some money to get an equivalent sound. Good luck.

drive-south · #10 11-20-2007, 08:45 AM

You can buy a Mackie 1202 mixer brand new for $200. They have 4 XLR mic preamps and 4 stereo/mono channels. The mic preamps in these mixers are the XDR type pre's that are among the best in the consumer price range.
Mackie also has a new series of mixers with British-style eq.

Nothing cheap sounding about these mixers at all. The circuitry is every bit as clean as the Genz-Banez amp circuitry.

The setup that was suggested with the 2 amps would work fine for the one application (guitar+fiddle+1 vocal), but the minute you try to add another vocal mic or instrument, you're out of gas.

rmyAddison · #11 11-20-2007, 09:17 AM

drive-south,

Sometimes my age shows and I forget how much prices have come down over the years, that Mackie does look fine to expand the system we're talking about (if necessary).

I may check out the Onyx line w/firewire versus a Digi003 for my home studio, you've got me thinking options, and I do love the Mackie Big Knob I use for routing. Peace.

strumminman · #12 11-22-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive-south

You can buy a Mackie 1202 mixer brand new for $200. They have 4 XLR mic preamps and 4 stereo/mono channels. The mic preamps in these mixers are the XDR type pre's that are among the best in the consumer price range.
Mackie also has a new series of mixers with British-style eq.

Nothing cheap sounding about these mixers at all. The circuitry is every bit as clean as the Genz-Banez amp circuitry.

The setup that was suggested with the 2 amps would work fine for the one application (guitar+fiddle+1 vocal), but the minute you try to add another vocal mic or instrument, you're out of gas.

Thanks drive-south. I had a look at these on the web. There are also some on ebay going for around $100+ w/shipping.

strumminman · #13 11-22-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

I use my Shen Pro with an extension cabinet for PA for two reasons, it sounds fantastic (I don't need a mixer as a solo act), and to get a mixer and powered cabinets that sounds as good is at least 2-3 times the money to my ears.

Hey Rich...do you need a specific type of extension cabinet for an amplifier. What would I need for my Shen 100? What exactly is the purpose of an extension cabinet & what does it do? Do I need special hookups, cords, etc? Sorry, but I warned you that I was new at this. Thanks.