Rich clean tone in a 5-watt amp - is it possible?

solarbean · #1 11-01-2007, 12:05 PM

I love a nice clean rich tone.

I am currently using a Mesa Boogie F30 and and I find that the clean tone is a bit trebly and bright for my tastes. Perhaps it would have more depth if I turned it up past "4", but then I would be having too much trouble liberating myself from the wall paster to play the darn guitar.

The type of tone I like is found in the intro to the Red Hot Chili Peppers tune Scar Tissue . Perhaps a slight bit of distortion added in.

Is there a 5-watt-ish amp available that would make this tone? I remember reading a thread months ago on small amps - perhaps on this forum - but I can't seem to find it.

-kk- · #2 11-01-2007, 12:13 PM

there are too many unknowns to be able to answer your question properly. what guitar(s) are you using?

Ive not played the F30 myself, but find it hard to believe that any mesa can be described as 'trebly', and ive owned my fair share of mesa amps. however, if you do play them soft and not push the tubes enough, then yes, they could sounds a bit cold/ sterile.

the manuals come with some suggested settings, did you try those?

jyee · #3 11-01-2007, 12:37 PM

there are plenty of good sub-5 watt amps out there. the epiphone valve jr. is probably the most commercially available one, but there are lots of others from boutique builders. Lovepedal used to make a couple 1/2 watt amps that sounded really nice.

ask around on thegearpage.net and i'm sure you'll get a huge list.

-kk- · #4 11-01-2007, 12:43 PM

btw, as far as low watt amps goes, i have an unhealthy fetish for the emery superbaby (http://www.emerysound.com/Superbaby.html)

Ooogie Boogie · #5 11-01-2007, 01:21 PM

Yowzaaa - that SuberBaby is sweet!!! Love the enclosed head model but it is a little on the pricey side

Fran Guidry · #6 11-01-2007, 01:46 PM

Is it possible that you're experiencing tonal shift due to the Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curves?

http://www.allchurchsound.com/ACS/edart/fmelc.html

Perhaps you could achieve your desired effect with a little EQ somewhere in your chain.

Fran

Herb Hunter · #7 11-01-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

Is it possible that you're experiencing tonal shift due to the Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curves?

http://www.allchurchsound.com/ACS/edart/fmelc.html

Perhaps you could achieve your desired effect with a little EQ somewhere in your chain.

Fran

Given the frequency range of the electric guitar, I don't think the human ear's reduced sensitivity to the frequency extremes at low volume is the issue.

solarbean · #8 11-01-2007, 05:52 PM

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I am primarily acoustic player, so I am extremely naive and uneducated about electric tone.

I'm currently using a Parker Fly for electric and have a new-to-me Les Paul on the way in next week.

I used to have a Fender Princeton Reverb and find that my memory of its clean tone was better than my F30's clean tone. (For what it's worth.)

This is what the Fly-F30 sounds like on the factory recommended clean settings.

That intro to Scar Tissue just has more depth and warmth. Where does it come from? Driving the amp? Is that something that I can obtain with footpedals and my F30 or am I better off getting a simple little Epi Valve Jr and cranking it?

Those superbabys look really really sexy, but $ouch$.

Thanks again!

dthumb · #9 11-01-2007, 06:15 PM

=solarbean;

Quote:

This is what the Fly-F30 sounds like on the factory recommended clean settings.

hmmm...thats really not that clean..alot of twang and quack in there just no overdrive..imo. of course.

Quote:

intro to Scar Tissue just has more depth and warmth. Where does it come from? Driving the amp? Is that something that I can obtain with footpedals and my F30 or am I better off getting a simple little Epi Valve Jr and cranking it?

sounds like straight driven tubes...try a blues jr or deluxe reverb all tone knobs full and back off the mids ( try using just the neck pickup, too)...see if that does it for you. your valve jr may or may not be able to get the clarity in the bottom end the others will.

good luck and have fun experimenting!

zombywoof · #10 11-01-2007, 08:28 PM

Give a Swart Space Tone a try. You just might like.

HereIGoAgain · #11 11-01-2007, 08:41 PM

Well, for one thing, most people who buy 5-watt tube amps aren't looking for a "clean" sound. Instead, they want a full-on cranked sound without blowing out their windows. (Some 5-watt amps, though, can still raise the roof volume-wise.)

I think your problem is in the settings. Without having that guitar and that amp, it's tough to dial it in exactly, but I think you could stand some more mids on your EQ, maybe turn down the treble a hair.

Also consider this. If I remember correctly, the Parker Fly is a bright sounding guitar. You may find what you're looking for with that F30 and a humbucking mahoghany guitar. Just a thought.

If you decide that you really want another amp, look at a Mesa/Boogie Express 5:25. It normally runs 30 watts class AB through a 10" speaker, but you can switch it to 5 watts single-ended class A. In both modes, there are 2 channels, 2 modes per channel. I've demoed one but passed on it (didn't have the money, otherwise it would be here with me). It can get some very fat tones, both clean and overdriven.

-kk- · #12 11-01-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereIGoAgain

Well, for one thing, most people who buy 5-watt tube amps aren't looking for a "clean" sound. Instead, they want a full-on cranked sound without blowing out their windows. (Some 5-watt amps, though, can still raise the roof volume-wise.)

agree completely, you will likely be disappointed if you're looking for any sort of clean from a lower watt amp. you should be able to get what youre after from the mesa. a few things you might wana try before giving up on the F30:
- crank it, play with tone knobs
- try dropping new tubes in there, speak to someone like bob at eurotubes (i find mesa tubes are biased too cold, they can sound a bit bland sometimes, you can get someone like bob to bias a set that hotter, whch will drive easier etc)
- with reference to scar tissue comment, you'll have a hard time approximating that tone if you're using a mahog parker fly, which i think is a hum/hum pu config.
- just out of curiosity, whats the speaker config for the amp? and where is it located in the room? in the corner? on the floor?

if all else fails, i'd also recommend you check out the smaller fenders and also the now discontinued mesa blue angel, its got a clean sound to die for, and doesnt take much to kick it into overdrive as well. they could be had for about 500-800 depending on condition and your patience.

hope this helps.

kelvin

solarbean · #13 11-02-2007, 06:06 AM

Thanks again for the input!

That Swart Atomic Space is another really sweet piece, but again - the price. They sell close to 2 kilobills and it does not look like they are in abundance used.

Thanks as well fo the MB 5:25 and Blue Angel suggestions. I will look into those ones. Sounds like the Blue Angel focuses on cleans and the 5:25 has the low power feature. Boy, I wish hey had a 5:25 blue angel model - sounds like everything I am looking for.

Quote:

- just out of curiosity, whats the speaker config for the amp? and where is it located in the room? in the corner? on the floor?

This is a 1x12 and is located on the floor in the corner of an 8x8 carpeted room.

Quote:

- with reference to scar tissue comment, you'll have a hard time approximating that tone if you're using a mahog parker fly, which i think is a hum/hum pu config.

Is that tone in Scar Tissue more likely from a single coil pickup?

I have wondered if my Mesa Boogie's Tubes just need replacement, but I don't have an experienced enough ear to know. I will need to consider whether it is worth investing in a tube replacement or to sell this amp and try some of the other suggestions offered here.

-kk- · #14 11-02-2007, 06:19 AM

definitely a single coil, most likely a strat or maybe a jag.

at the end of the day, if you're looking to own tube amps, it helps to learn a bit about it. id say to buy a set of replacement tubes and see how you go from there. replacing the amp will cost more, and will not garuantee you a better result.

as far as Blue angel goes, they have a 15w, 30w and a 33w setting (i think, memory fails me). they do distort at room volumes, so headroom is not great at all. while on this topic, most, if not all 5w tube amps will likely have very little headroom, most people buy them for their abilty to get tube distortion at 'normal' volumes. for that reason, im not convinced that a 5w amp is what you need (but that IMHO).

if you like you could also email/call mesa and tell them your predicament and ask for their recommendation. most of the time you can do little things that affect the sound, they'll be able to tell you model specific recommendations.

Seagull Lover · #15 11-02-2007, 07:41 AM

If you want a nice clean tube sound in a smaller amp, check out the Fender Blues Junior and the Peavey Classic 30. They are very reasonably priced. If you want clean, you need more headroom than what a 5 watt amp can give you. Also, don't underestimate the power of an EQ pedal to shape your tone.