Low-cost options for casual open mics?

[6L6]

Originally Posted by Mobilemike

K&K pure mini costs a little over $100, sounds great, and is simple to use.

THIS ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

[Ralph124C41]

I talked to my luthier buddy. He said he has installed at least three of the K&K Minis and he still says he prefers the Infinity VT. He makes his own line of acoustics, has his own Youtube channel and does repairs and upgrades for guitars in our area with some people coming from other states ... so I'm inclined to trust in what he says.

As I said I will just so what I have and add some kind of pickup later on if I think I need to do that.

[GoPappy]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I talked to my luthier buddy. He said he has installed at least three of the K&K Minis and he still says he prefers the Infinity VT. He makes his own line of acoustics, has his own Youtube channel and does repairs and upgrades for guitars in our area with some people coming from other states ... so I'm inclined to trust in what he says.

As I said I will just so what I have and add some kind of pickup later on if I think I need to do that.

I've got the Infinity Matrix VT in my Martin CEO7, and I think it sounds quite good. I'm just a bedroom player, so it doesn't make 15 cents worth of difference to me, but I like the sound when I plug in. If nothing else, it's plenty good for an open mic night.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I've looked into the K&K Pure Mini and it seems interesting.

It's a hit with lots of pros.

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

It's something I THINK even I can install but I may have my luthier buddy try that, especially or at least drilling the output hole.

Why not? It's what makes guitar techs' lives worth living.

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I did that on my Alvarez AD710 and ... it was not good. Not good at all.

Thanks for your comments but I'm getting confused. Some say just get a better preamp than my Behringer and keep what I have (or get the Mini). Others say to let the venue sound person adjust my sound. As I said at the open mics I go to there are either no "true" sound person or somebody who just does a mediocre job ... but as others have said it's an open mic and you can't expect a studio-level performance.

That's opinions for you. If they all matched, there wouldn't be any point to having so many people in the world.

So when I post a question like that, I don't look for agreement. I just use all the opinions I get to figure out what to try next. Which seems to be exactly what you're doing.

There might not be that "'true' sound person" at your open mics, but there must be someone the PA belongs to. That's the person you'll deal with, regardless.

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I would like to look into installing either the Mini or the cheaper alternative.

For what it's worth, my mandolin has a JBB, and it sounds good, for a lot less money than a K&K would have. I was just getting tired of sinking my hard-earneds into the little feller. There are plenty of JJB reviews on yootoob. I watched some before I decide to try one. They sounded just like more expensive pickups to these ears.

And don't rule out passive soundhole pickups. I used one for years and never got a complaint.

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

Btw, I just gave up on my hobbled-together Alvarez with the Neo soundhole pickup. As others said it was I think robbing the guitar of some of the resonance when I played it unamplified so I just disconnected the cord inside and so now it's back to where I can put it the soundhole if needed and take it out.

Smart move!

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

As for the Behringer unit I mainly use it to increase the volume and cut some of the feedback or hum. I do have an EQ pedal I could also use.

No problem there, but again, it shouldn't be necessary. I never see people bring their EQs or preamps to open mics. Keep it simple.

[FrankHudson]

It's been decades since I played an open mic -- but I'll bet the KISS principle still applies: don't overcomplicate things looking to perfect your guitar sound.

The people who run open mics expect to be confronted with lots of folks turning up to play one after the other. They want easy, and likely don't have the time to chase after best possible sound.

Simplest thing overall I'd say is a soundhole magnetic pickup. They don't tend to cost much, don't require an installation, generally just work plugged in without a separate preamp, and allow one to put the song across soundwise.

I suspect the expectations for pickups that puzzle some here may come from simple logistics: at an open mic where the presenter/organizer might also be the sound person and one-man stage crew having a guitar mic constantly used means having to adjust the guitar mic for every performer who may stand (or sit) at different heights, or may have a different sized instrument. That makes adjusting a boom arm an unwelcome additional task.*



*Yes, I know the OG "Folk Scare" way to do that: just one mic and stand back a bit, maybe even hold your guitar higher for the big final strums, modulate your playing and voice to balance. These skills are not commonly held by beginning open-mic players.

I do attend a lot of poetry readings, open mics and "pros." No one's plugging in a guitar there, but the awkward thing I see so often is folks bending the speaker's microphone boom arm up and down until the clutch (never released, because few poets know to do that) fails -- and the mic swoops down to the floor in the middle of poem.

Yes, goosenecks would make this better.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

...

Smart move!

...Keep it simple.

Not sure why discarding something that works is smart, because I think it's a reasonable place to start. One of the most loved/respected players at a local open mic played with a Neo (humbucker version) for years. Sounded great. I'd have the luthier simply plug and properly re-drill for an endpin jack - cover up the mess with a binding "wedge" and nobody'd be the wiser. Use adhesive cable clips inside to neaten up the wiring, and even add a jack so the pickup could be swapped out if something better is decided on later.

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

It's been decades since I played an open mic -- but I'll bet the KISS principle still applies: don't overcomplicate things looking to perfect your guitar sound.

The people who run open mics expect to be confronted with lots of folks turning up to play one after the other. They want easy, and likely don't have the time to chase after best possible sound.

Simplest thing overall I'd say is a soundhole magnetic pickup. ....

I agree with this since it kind of echos some of my feelings, though I'd consider something like an active humbucker, like the M1A, to further reduce potential problems. (Based on my experience at hundreds of open mics as a performer, and running a few, too.)

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Not sure why discarding something that works is smart, because I think it's a reasonable place to start

I did that because, as I said, it was jury rigged and it could fail or fall out at the jam. And I do like to play it at home ... unplugged ... and I noticed it just didn't sound as good as before. So I took the pickup out but the connection is still there and I can always reinstall it if I like with the cord going through the end post.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

I did that because, as I said, it was jury rigged and it could fail or fall out at the jam. And I do like to play it at home ... unplugged ... and I noticed it just didn't sound as good as before. So I took the pickup out but the connection is still there and I can always reinstall it if I like with the cord going through the end post.

I did read why *you* did what you did - I was trying to say that I'd have take that guitar and had it fixed up for what your purpose was, i.e., something "for casual open mics."

Of course, do not show up with something likely to fail, so no loose wires, no nearly dead batteries, dead strings that can't play in tune or a guitar that cannot be tuned, etc. but it looked (from your list) like you have acoustic-only guitars and it was my thought that you had a good candidate chosen initially for the open mic chores, so thought it might be better to continue down that path. But, vaya con dios... Good luck with whatever you do.

[Br1ck]

No, a K&K plugged into a PA with an average, average is a low bar, will not sound good. You won't have time to do all the EQing a K&K needs, and they might not even have the high impedance switch on. Yes, it will make noise.

If you want cheap, buy a JJB. It will sound as good as a K&K, but it will still need a pre. You can get your pickup dialed in to where it will sound ok into the board. You need a high pass filter and a mid parametric at least. A pre you can buy used is the built like a tank PARA DI.

There is a lot to be said for a sound hole magnetic too. Simple and cheap, or can be anyway.

[Ralph124C41]

Thanks, folks, for all of the replies and the helpful suggestions.

For the moment at least this is on my back burner (along with some old refried beans, LOL) as I bought a used Alvarez PD80SC and I'm getting it tomorrow. It has a pickup in it as well as a cutaway (which I've never owned) and it has an Engleman spruce top (which I've also never owned) so maybe it will be my "open mic" guitar ... or maybe not.

Many people suggest I have a preamp. I have that Behringer unit which .. works. Is there something else a step up from it ? Again, I'm not talking a low-cost option because if the Behringer will suffice I don't see the need to add something else.

[Br1ck]

If your guitar has a battery, it has a preamp. No need for an outboard pre, although one can sound better.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

If your guitar has a battery, it has a preamp. No need for an outboard pre, although one can sound better.

I understand that. I was speaking of my original plan to install a soundhole or similar pickup in one of my non-amplified acoustics.

[RussellHawaii]

My preferred setup is a K&K, installed by local luthier, with a volume knob wired into place in the sound hole. They can eliminate the supplied plug and jack and solder the knob in line, saving weight and knocking noises. This costs about $200 installed here.
This way I can turn down a bit for a loud strumming song, and back up to full volume for fingerpicking, right from the guitar with no sound person help.
Maybe open mic hosts don’t like it, but I would add a small preamp if it’s allowed, makes it sound better even without tweaking on stage. It can be belt clipped or on the ground.

[Stringmaster]

As the host of an open mic and regular participant in another, I see all kinds of systems. I’d recommend going with something with an active pickup system, since they’re plug-and-play. It’s much easier for the host, and you will look more professional if you get up, plug in and go. On the other hand, I see a lot of folks spend 5 minutes or more of their time plugging in external boxes, pedalboards, etc. and often the sound is no better and usually worse than an active system, and it can disrupt the flow. A passive pickup without a preamp is marginal at best. Typically needing to be mic’d can cause problems too. Different story if you’re playing a show with your own gear and have ample setup time.

[strangebloom]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

Thanks. While the open mic organizers tell me it's "possible" to mic my guitar I've never seen anybody else do that so I would feel sort of being the outlaw oddball ... plus I don't know how good it would sound.

The soundhole pickup option would be fine and essentially that is what I have done on my Alvarez. I do miss having a control onboard for volume and tone. I have seen some third-party devices that claim to offer such controls but I don't know how well they perform. I was thinking I could use my Alvarez and then connect it to the Behringer unit and put it on a stand or stool so I can adjust it on the fly ... and then connect it to the venue's P.A. system.

My Neo is a single coil type. Maybe I could add a Neo humbucker type?

I personally wouldn't modify one of my guitars just to be able to sit in at an open mic. I have never been to an open mic that couldn't mic a pure acoustic guitar. When I do that, I'll strum a couple of times and ask through the mic how it sounds to the audience. If they affirm it's good, rock on... No volume control needed.