What pickup do I need

[Vancebo]

My last guitar purchase was 10 months ago. I went back to the drawing board when it came to deciding on a pickup to put in it. I am on first name basis with people from most of the manufacturers of pickups. I have had a lot. Just a list from the top of my head:

Fishman Matrix Natural
Same pickup above with an internal Crown mic through a Fishman Blender
Baggs Dual Source
Highlander dual source
Fishman Matrix dual source for Taylor Guitars
Pick Up The World
K and K mini
K and K dual source
K and K 3 sources (silver Bullet mic and the Fantastic UST)
K and K with AKG mic
K and K with a DPA 4061 mic
Baggs I beam
Baggs Anthem Sl and Full Anthem
DTAR Multi source
Baggs Lyric
Taylor Expression System tried every version
DPA 4099 mic
McIntyre Acoustic Feather
Dazzo

Some of these I have had in more than one guitar and I am not mentioning the various preamps by Pendulum, DTAR, Fishman, Baggs, Raven Labs, Red Eye and who knows what else.

What's my point? Well, I have spent A LOT OF MONEY! when I could of been making more music. I was a Gear-a-holic. If I can help people get from point A to point B faster and cheaper, than it is worth it. It's is a healthy part of recovery.

After all that, I now have a system that has no internal electronics. (No battery) It sounds great set flat. It only takes very mild EQ to make it pop. You would think there is a mic in it but there isn't. And, it's simple. I have never achieved that through any system above.

When I was ready to make a decision for this guitar, I was down to the Dazzo and the Trance. I decided to go Dazzo since I didn't want all of the electronics in my guitar. Someday, I might try a Trance. I know I would probably like it. I know there are a lot of K and K folks here that would say their guitar sounds great set flat, it just wasn't my experience. Even at it's best, I thought it needed a mic to make it sound believable.

I encourage anyone who is interested in the Dazzo to give Teddy a call. He builds them himself, answers the phone himself and he will talk you through the install by himself. He will even do the install for free if you were able to meet up with him. I have installed this system myself and this weekend, I am installing a set in two ukuleles. Don't fear the epoxy install. It makes great connection and you hear it in the tone. If re positioning is needed, it is very easy to do. The Dazzo and the Red Eye preamp is very Dazzling!

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

As for you first opinionated statement... Better take a listen to Gillian Welch and David Rawlings live then. They get GREAT acoustic tone from SM57's and 58's, I've seen them use both with nothing else! In this video she has two 57's on her guitar while David has one, notice no guitar cords!!! They have a fairly good collection of 57's that they've graded for performance! And as you probably know 57s and 58s are identical other than the windscreen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UDaLl9s4z4

As for the second statement...

Spoken like a dealer, I've heard many properly set up guitars with many different pickups, that have smoked Trance systems, so I would choose my words a bit more carefully. I've never heard a Trance that sounds better than the B-Band that's in my 50's model J45 or my J100 Extra, and although I've been offered endorsements by more than one pickup company, I had to pay full price for the B-Bands! And I feel Highlanders when set up right can also sound righteous. Yes this is opinion, but calling any other pickup system inferior well many people would disagree.

Rock, thank you.

Maury, I'm not into piling on, but I'll tell you I was so offended by your response to my post that had to go away from this thread and come back 24 hours later so that I didn't post something equally rude in response. And this from another Sponsor! I'm a big boy and can take of myself, and I have a thick skin and don't scare easily. But the worst of your post, as Rock pointed out above, is most of it was FLAT WRONG.

Go to the Grand Ole Opry sometime and you're not likely to see very many guitar pickups onstage. They play into microphones -- and I defy anyone with any pickup on any guitar to sound as good as those boys do. Anyone. It won't happen.

I had the pleasure this summer to go to a festival where Jerry Douglas was playing with this new group of his (sorry, forget the name), where they're going around playing old Flatt & Scruggs and Bill Monroe stuff from the fifties. These are all crack Nashville session guys, four part harmonies, the whole deal. Not a single guitar pickup onstage. They sang and played directly into mics; when a solo came, everyone stepped aside and that player (fiddle, mando, guitar, banjo) played his solo into a single mic. And this was outside! And it was windy! No one on stage the rest of the festival, everyone with their fancy pickups, sounded half as good as these guys.

I'll stand by what I said: Give me a SM-57 or -58 any day of the week. And the worst of it is most younger players don't even know what a real guitar sounds like anymore -- and most older players too.

"Spoken like a dealer." Those were exactly my thoughts too -- Rock took the words out of my mouth.

One of the things I've learned to do as a Sponsor here is to promote other people's stuff that I personally like. People will often see me recommending Dunlop, Wegen, Red Bear, Blue Chip and so on. Why? Well, for one thing, I'd be lying if I said they didn't make great stuff, cuz they do, and then people would know I was lying. More importantly though, the fact that they exist is the only reason Charmed Life even came into being. So it's my way of expressing gratitude. And I have another weird theory: there is enough to go around for everyone. If I watch my P's and Q's and keep my nose clean, I figure everyone will do well and CL will get its share at some point. I like promoting the whole category I'm in, cuz it lifts everyone up.

And I sleep better at night.

scott memmer

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Rock, thank you.

Maury, I'm not into piling on, but I'll tell you I was so offended by your response to my post that had to go away from this thread and come back 24 hours later so that I didn't post something equally rude in response. And this from another Sponsor! I'm a big boy and can take of myself, and I have a thick skin and don't scare easily. But the worst of your post, as Rock pointed out above, is most of it was FLAT WRONG.

Go to the Grand Ole Opry sometime and you're not likely to see very many guitar pickups onstage. They play into microphones -- and I defy anyone with any pickup on any guitar to sound as good as those boys do. Anyone. It won't happen.

I had the pleasure this summer to go to a festival where Jerry Douglas was playing with this new group of his (sorry, forget the name), where they're going around playing old Flatt & Scruggs and Bill Monroe stuff from the fifties. These are all crack Nashville session guys, four part harmonies, the whole deal. Not a single guitar pickup onstage. They sang and played directly into mics; when a solo came, everyone stepped aside and that player (fiddle, mando, guitar, banjo) played his solo into a single mic. And this was outside! And it was windy! No one on stage the rest of the festival, everyone with their fancy pickups, sounded half as good as these guys.

I'll stand by what I said: Give me a SM-57 or -58 any day of the week. And the worst of it is most younger players don't even know what a real guitar sounds like anymore -- and most older players too.

"Spoken like a dealer." Those were exactly my thoughts too -- Rock took the words out of my mouth.

One of the things I've learned to do as a Sponsor here is to promote other people's stuff that I personally like, don't make

I'm honestly shocked that my post offended anyone. It's my opinion- that's all. I see so many people who say that mics are better than pickups but mics sound so awful at many weekend-warrior gigs. Those of you who are citing excellent results from mics are referencing bluegrass concerts. I'm coming from a classic rock & bar band scene. I don't expect everyone here to agree with my findings but how did my remarks cause such heartache?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Rock, thank you.

Maury, I'm not into piling on, but I'll tell you I was so offended by your response to my post that had to go away from this thread and come back 24 hours later so that I didn't post something equally rude in response. And this from another Sponsor! I'm a big boy and can take of myself, and I have a thick skin and don't scare easily. But the worst of your post, as Rock pointed out above, is most of it was FLAT WRONG.

Go to the Grand Ole Opry sometime and you're not likely to see very many guitar pickups onstage. They play into microphones -- and I defy anyone with any pickup on any guitar to sound as good as those boys do. Anyone. It won't happen.

I had the pleasure this summer to go to a festival where Jerry Douglas was playing with this new group of his (sorry, forget the name), where they're going around playing old Flatt & Scruggs and Bill Monroe stuff from the fifties. These are all crack Nashville session guys, four part harmonies, the whole deal. Not a single guitar pickup onstage. They sang and played directly into mics; when a solo came, everyone stepped aside and that player (fiddle, mando, guitar, banjo) played his solo into a single mic. And this was outside! And it was windy! No one on stage the rest of the festival, everyone with their fancy pickups, sounded half as good as these guys.

I'll stand by what I said: Give me a SM-57 or -58 any day of the week. And the worst of it is most younger players don't even know what a real guitar sounds like anymore -- and most older players too.

"Spoken like a dealer." Those were exactly my thoughts too -- Rock took the words out of my mouth.

One of the things I've learned to do as a Sponsor here is to promote other people's stuff that I personally like. People will often see me recommending Dunlop, Wegen, Red Bear, Blue Chip and so on. Why? Well, for one thing, I'd be lying if I said they didn't make great stuff, cuz they do, and people would know I was lying. More importantly though, the fact that they exist is the only reason Charmed Life even came into being. So it's my way of expressing gratitude. And I have another weird theory: there is enough to go around for everyone. If I watch my P's and Q's and keep my nose clean and

I think you may have read a bit too much into Maury's post to get that bothered by it. Yes, he is a Trance dealer but it is pretty evident to me at least that he flat out loves that pickup system. I highly doubt he posts on here to get more people to buy the Trance from him.

I also think the SM-57/58 has more to do with knowing how to set it up properly than it does with the actual great results you can get with them. Personally, I wouldn't try that set up for any of my shows as it would be a nightmare. If you don't know what you are doing, it can sound terrible. All of the players you listed have incredible sound men, most of us don't have that knowledge. You are also stuck to a mic, which can be a pain for most musicians.

We all differ so I wouldn't get too offended by people offering their opinion on topics you may not agree with. Not trying to start anything honestly, I just wouldn't get too caught up on the comments made here.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I think you may have read a bit too much into Maury's post to get that bothered by it. Yes, he is a Trance dealer but it is pretty evident to me at least that he flat out loves that pickup system. I highly doubt he posts on here to get more people to buy the Trance from him.

I also think the SM-57/58 has more to do with knowing how to set it up properly than it does with the actual great results you can get with them. Personally, I wouldn't try that set up for any of my shows as it would be a nightmare. If you don't know what you are doing, it can sound terrible. All of the players you listed have incredible sound men, most of us don't have that knowledge. You are also stuck to a mic, which can be a pain for most musicians.

We all differ so I wouldn't get too offended by people offering their opinion on topics you may not agree with. Not trying to start anything honestly, I just wouldn't get too caught up on the comments made here.

Personally I don't care if he loves the pickup, when a dealer of a product calls all other choices inferior he is stepping over the line especially when it is opinion at best! I have tried every major pickup system other then the Dazzo that I can think of and the Trance isn't even in my top three! And as far setting up mics on stage in a rock band setup I do it every time I play with my rock and roll band. I have said this before, I run a BETA 87 into channel 2 of my Schertler Jam 400, and it is EQ'd to keep the low-end rumble out, and I blend it wih a B-Band in channel 3. And the B-Band has it's own ParaEQ on a pedal board to shape it. I then DI the Schertler into the house PA and it slays! It never takes me more than 10 minutes to set my rig up. And I play LOUD! So if you guys don't know how to do it, that's fine, but it can be done, you just have to learn how to do it! When the band is doing quieter numbers I roll back the pickup and that's where the mic shines like no other pickup, it's the only thing that I know that gets the proper strum tone of an acoustic. So Maury's blanket statement about Shure mics on stage like the SM58 is just plain wrong. I ocasionally substitute an SM58 into my rig in rooms/stages where I feel it will shine. I use different pickups in different guitars, but I ALWAYS have a mic in front of one. And we do many gigs where we don't have a provided sound man!

[Audie]

A mic is what it sounds like you are looking for. I have had wonderful success with the Blue Hummingbird condenser mic. Pure natural sound!

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by 6L6

I should add that if you're after Neil's tone, the DAZZO is the only way to go. Teddy had a hand in the design of the FRAP pups Neil has used all these years. His Dazzos take the concept to a whole new level.

BTW, if you didn't know already, Teddy is a PHENOMENAL guitar player. Think "Michael Hedges GREAT"!!!

If you're after Neil's tone, wouldn't you go with Trance because that's what Neil is now using? Michael Hedges also used Trance products. Yes, and Dazzos are, from what has been posted on this board, really good pickups too. K&K is also a good system but you may have to fiddle with other things in the signal chain to get the best out of one of these systems. All just my .02 cents.

[daddyvettes]

The craziest thing I forgot to mention is it seems like the cheaper the guitar and pickup the better the zoom a3 works. I have an old ibanez from the early 80's with the most basic passive ust. It literally sounds like a muffled mess. The zoom a3 makes it sound incredible. Using the zoom a3 on my Martin doesn't produce the same results because you're hearing a great sound to start with. I guess my point is that there is a universe of options and no 1 rule.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Personally I don't care if he loves the pickup, when a dealer of a product calls all other choices inferior he is stepping over the line especially when it is opinion at best! I have tried every major pickup system other then the Dazzo that I can think of and the Trance isn't even in my top three! And as far setting up mics on stage in a rock band setup I do it every time I play with my rock and roll band. I have said this before, I run a BETA 87 into channel 2 of my Schertler Jam 400, and it is EQ'd to keep the low-end rumble out, and I blend it wih a B-Band in channel 3. And the B-Band has it's own ParaEQ on a pedal board to shape it. I then DI the Schertler into the house PA and it slays! It never takes me more than 10 minutes to set my rig up. And I play LOUD! So if you guys don't know how to do it, that's fine, but it can be done, you just have to learn how to do it! When the band is doing quieter numbers I roll back the pickup and that's where the mic shines like no other pickup, it's the only thing that I know that gets the proper strum tone of an acoustic. So Maury's blanket statement about Shure mics on stage like the SM58 is just plain wrong. I ocasionally substitute an SM58 into my rig in rooms/stages where I feel it will shine. I use different pickups in different guitars, but I ALWAYS have a mic in front of one. And we do many gigs where we don't have a provided sound man!

I'll remind you - this is my opinion from my experience and your mileage may vary. Obviously I'm not the only one who sees the value in replacing a mic with a pickup in many situations. How can my opinion be flat wrong? Why doesn't Jackson use a different pickup with the Neumann? Because the mic is not doing the heavy lifting and to HIS ears other pickups are inferior. I never said it's a fact that all other pickups bow to the greatness that is Trance audio. You're taking this way too personally and if you feel I've crossed the line because my opinion doesn't belong here and/or is flat wrong, I don't know what I can do to remedy it between you and I. I sincerely hope other readers of this thread will come to their own judgements based on my history and reputation here.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Personally I don't care if he loves the pickup, when a dealer of a product calls all other choices inferior he is stepping over the line especially when it is opinion at best! I have tried every major pickup system other then the Dazzo that I can think of and the Trance isn't even in my top three! And as far setting up mics on stage in a rock band setup I do it every time I play with my rock and roll band. I have said this before, I run a BETA 87 into channel 2 of my Schertler Jam 400, and it is EQ'd to keep the low-end rumble out, and I blend it wih a B-Band in channel 3. And the B-Band has it's own ParaEQ on a pedal board to shape it. I then DI the Schertler into the house PA and it slays! It never takes me more than 10 minutes to set my rig up. And I play LOUD! So if you guys don't know how to do it, that's fine, but it can be done, you just have to learn how to do it! When the band is doing quieter numbers I roll back the pickup and that's where the mic shines like no other pickup, it's the only thing that I know that gets the proper strum tone of an acoustic. So Maury's blanket statement about Shure mics on stage like the SM58 is just plain wrong. I ocasionally substitute an SM58 into my rig in rooms/stages where I feel it will shine. I use different pickups in different guitars, but I ALWAYS have a mic in front of one. And we do many gigs where we don't have a provided sound man!

Why have you spent so much time, effort and money trying every major pickup system other than Dazzo if mics are so superior? If the mic is such a major part of your tone, surely you could have just stopped looking after you installed the first pickup.

It takes me less than 1 minute to set my rig up. I plug my guitar into a Radial preamp and plug it into the mixer. I don't need surgical parametric EQ, a pedalboard, a mic or an amp. I don't even need the preamp but I like the footswitchable boost function for a few songs.

[Shoreline Music]

I'd cut Maury some slack. I've seen far worse dealer behavior on the AGF, and I just read his comment as excitement about the pickup he's currently using. Heck, if you've watched any of my guitar videos, you know that I sometimes go a little overboard in my excitement about the instrument I'm holding.

I've sold a lot of pickups, I've personally installed nearly everything out there at one point or another, and I have stage reports from a lot of customers. And I've learned that every single pickup—every brand, every kind of pickup—has the potential to sound amazing in the right guitar+gear rig, and the potential to sound lousy in the wrong guitar+gear rig. If, in a sea of amplification choices, Maury—or anyone else—has found the setup that works for him, then that's worth celebrating.

My main stage guitar for the last 15 years has a basic undersaddle (it's a Renaissance RS6). Why go with a regular old undersaddle when I have the entire world of acoustic amplification at my fingertips? Because it's utterly trouble-free, and lets me get about the business of making music.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Shoreline Music

I'd cut Maury some slack. I've seen far worse dealer behavior on the AGF, and I just read his comment as excitement about the pickup he's currently using. Heck, if you've watched any of my guitar videos, you know that I sometimes go a little overboard in my excitement about the instrument I'm holding.

I've sold a lot of pickups, I've personally installed nearly everything out there at one point or another, and I have stage reports from a lot of customers. And I've learned that every single pickup—every brand, every kind of pickup—has the potential to sound amazing in the right guitar+gear rig, and the potential to sound lousy in the wrong guitar+gear rig. If, in a sea of amplification choices, Maury—or anyone else—has found the setup that works for him, then that's worth celebrating.

My main stage guitar for the last 15 years has a basic undersaddle (it's a Renaissance RS6). Why go with a regular old undersaddle when I have the entire world of acoustic amplification at my fingertips? Because it's utterly trouble-free, and lets me get about the business of making music.

I liked this response.
I have great success with what I use but I'm not going to post anything more about it when someone inquires "what pickup should I use?" There will be plenty of reccomendations from others.
I have learned that on the AGF you have to be very careful when you post anything with your opinion in it and how you express it. Even then, you run the risk of being berated or lectured to.

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by Shoreline Music

I'd cut Maury some slack. I've seen far worse dealer behavior on the AGF, and I just read his comment as excitement about the pickup he's currently using. Heck, if you've watched any of my guitar videos, you know that I sometimes go a little overboard in my excitement about the instrument I'm holding.

I've sold a lot of pickups, I've personally installed nearly everything out there at one point or another, and I have stage reports from a lot of customers. And I've learned that every single pickup—every brand, every kind of pickup—has the potential to sound amazing in the right guitar+gear rig, and the potential to sound lousy in the wrong guitar+gear rig. If, in a sea of amplification choices, Maury—or anyone else—has found the setup that works for him, then that's worth celebrating.

My main stage guitar for the last 15 years has a basic undersaddle (it's a Renaissance RS6). Why go with a regular old undersaddle when I have the entire world of acoustic amplification at my fingertips? Because it's utterly trouble-free, and lets me get about the business of making music.

...spot on my man.....when i was a "soundguy" specializing in acoustic performances i mixed literally hundreds of setups...the players ranged from complete newbies at open mics to seasoned performers on festival and concert stages that are household names in the acoustic world...

...rarely, if ever, did a pro player have issues with their sound...they knew what to do with their equipment and often had very specific suggestions for how they wanted the mix handled....NONE OF THEM sounded exactly like the other no matter what they were using...Jackson Browne and Neil Young don't sound the same and the other players i've listened to playing through Trance Audio setups all have their own sound as well....

...in the end its what you can do with what you've got that sets the end result.. and i continue to believe that pretty much any properly installed system can sound good depending on how the signal is processed...that goes for microphones and pickups....

...and i agree.... cut Maury some slack...his basic assessment of Shure SM's does not match everyones findings but he was just trying to illustrate a point based on his personal listening and playing experiences...

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

Why have you spent so much time, effort and money trying every major pickup system other than Dazzo if mics are so superior? If the mic is such a major part of your tone, surely you could have just stopped looking after you installed the first pickup.

It takes me less than 1 minute to set my rig up. I plug my guitar into a Radial preamp and plug it into the mixer. I don't need surgical parametric EQ, a pedalboard, a mic or an amp. I don't even need the preamp but I like the footswitchable boost function for a few songs.

Because many times I have to play where people have stuff back-lined for me and I have to plug into what they have and the pickup works easier in that situation. So I've tried to find the most consistently good sounding pickup for those times. I do on the average 250 to 300 gigs a year, with a majority of those gigs incorporating the mic!

As for not needing surgical EQ, good on you but if you played a the volumes levels I sometimes have to (ie rock band), I SERIOUSLY doubt you would get away with that, a pedal board is used to recreate tones that are crafted in a studio, the mic get's the real sound of the guitar, and the amp replaces the PA that you're playing in. It takes no longer to plug in a pedal board than it does your radial, it's still two plugs, one in, one out.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Personally I don't care if he loves the pickup, when a dealer of a product calls all other choices inferior he is stepping over the line especially when it is opinion at best! I have tried every major pickup system other then the Dazzo that I can think of and the Trance isn't even in my top three! And as far setting up mics on stage in a rock band setup I do it every time I play with my rock and roll band. I have said this before, I run a BETA 87 into channel 2 of my Schertler Jam 400, and it is EQ'd to keep the low-end rumble out, and I blend it wih a B-Band in channel 3. And the B-Band has it's own ParaEQ on a pedal board to shape it. I then DI the Schertler into the house PA and it slays! It never takes me more than 10 minutes to set my rig up. And I play LOUD! So if you guys don't know how to do it, that's fine, but it can be done, you just have to learn how to do it! When the band is doing quieter numbers I roll back the pickup and that's where the mic shines like no other pickup, it's the only thing that I know that gets the proper strum tone of an acoustic. So Maury's blanket statement about Shure mics on stage like the SM58 is just plain wrong. I ocasionally substitute an SM58 into my rig in rooms/stages where I feel it will shine. I use different pickups in different guitars, but I ALWAYS have a mic in front of one. And we do many gigs where we don't have a provided sound man!

I see your point but I also don't understand it in this context. Yes, Maury is a dealer but does that mean he can't voice his opinion on these forums when it's in regard to something he sells? I get what you are trying to say but at the same time, why is it okay for you to say that systems are inferior to the B-Band pickup you use but then for you to attack Maury for saying that he thinks the Trance system is the best? Again, I totally get the dealer issue but I would hope that by now, Maury's opinion on here would be taken for more than just an attempt to sell products.

I just want to add that you are contradicting yourself a bit. You are mad that Maury mentioned that using mics on stage is not an ideal way to amplify the guitar. However, you argue that he's completely wrong, and it can be done because you have had success with it. By you stating that Maury is wrong and your are right, you are doing exactly the same thing that upset you about his post in the first place. It's all subjective. I still tend to agree that yes a mic can work but for most people, it's far too much work, which is why we need pickups.

I just wanted to add that I don't remember you mentioning using a mic in conjunction with your B-Band system. I appreciated the information you gave me on it months ago but I was under the impression that you ran just the pickup without the help of an external mic. It's actually funny that this topic came up. I purchased the B-Band A2.2XOM system a few months ago but decided not to install it in favour of the Trance. It will be interesting to see which one I ultimately end up using.