What's more important Pickup or Preamp??

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by jipiboi

Yes I'm reading more about trance and it's looks pretty good! do you think it's worth it to get the Volume and Tone knobs? do you have anything in between your guitar and the P.A. when using the trance, reverb, eq or something like that? i'd like to use some pedals, just wondering if they work ok with the trance pickups? Do you know if they fit an 812?

I have two Trance Amulet M Dual Mono M-VT systems and I like the volume and tone controls because they give a measure of handy control. With all EQ set flat on a mixer or amp, I find the M-VT's Tone wheel especially useful because I can dial-in a nicely balanced tone by strumming and turning the wheel slowly until I hear all frequency-ranges fall into balance. The Trance Amulet M Dual Mono system is modular in that there are three available configurations: Straight system; M-V system, and M-VT system with the only difference being a particular wire-harness with/without a small sound-hole module. In other words, later on, you can alter whatever system you've bought by just ordering a different wire harness from Trance. Another plus for ordering either the M-V or M-VT system is these configurations have a battery-condition light on the sound-hole module. The light gives a few hours warning before a battery change.

I generally run my Martin HD-28 with installed Trance Amulet M Dual Mono M-VT straight into my Line 6 L2t or my previous Bose L1 Model II with T1 ToneMatch. I try to keep all EQ flat. Occasionally, for fun, I'll play with my TC Helicon VoiceLive 2 between my guitar and vocal mic and the PA system. I use the VoiceLive 2 for vocal harmony and reverb. I use a bit of unobtrusive reverb on the Martin. I don't use other effects on an acoustic guitar because I find they seem to distance the immediacy of a guitar's tone from my ears.

A nice example of a Trance Amulet M Dual Mono being used with a tremolo effect is in this video recently posted by Maury of Maury's music:

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I learned today that a guitar that has been superglued with a K&K system may not be a candidate for Trance. They report that the glue seeps into the wood and may interfere with the lenses. That's a good reason for going with Trance, for those of us who might be on the fence between K&K and Trance, as I was.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Thinking on this a bit, unless sanded- and nail polish removered-out, embedded superglue in a bridgeplate would likely compromise the tone of another installation of K&K transducers in a guitar from which a previous K&K system has been removed. If you or others have any experience with this, it would be good knowledge to share.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Thinking on this a bit, unless sanded- and nail polish removered-out, embedded superglue in a bridgeplate would likely compromise the tone of another installation of K&K transducers in a guitar from which a previous K&K system has been removed. If you or others have any experience with this, it would be good knowledge to share.

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if the K&K is less sensitive?

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[Spook]

Originally Posted by Schau_ins_Regal

The OP didn´t ask for an amp. Also I see no need why one should buy this in a band context where a full PA is available anyway. In this context an additional amp has mainly disadvantages imo.

He also said he wants to play alone. But in addition to that:

• Practicing with an amp he can learn to dial in a tone he likes and learn how to control acoustic amplification in general.
  
• He can practice with band members and jam with others offline.
  
• In a band context he can use the amp as a monitor.
  

Finally.. it keeps things simple. To control. To set up. To get a pleasing sound. That's where people should start.

[akafloyd]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Thinking on this a bit, unless sanded- and nail polish removered-out, embedded superglue in a bridgeplate would likely compromise the tone of another installation of K&K transducers in a guitar from which a previous K&K system has been removed. If you or others have any experience with this, it would be good knowledge to share.

I pulled a K&K from a guitar, played around with a couple other pickups and installed a new K&K after all. I just sanded the old glue smooth and it worked fine, certainly better than the first install for whatever reason.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by akafloyd

I pulled a K&K from a guitar, played around with a couple other pickups and installed a new K&K after all. I just sanded the old glue smooth and it worked fine, certainly better than the first install for whatever reason.

Good to know.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[jipiboi]

Originally Posted by Schau_ins_Regal

When I bring my whole pedalboard I use a DTAR Solstice and blend the Dazzo with a DPA4061 adding a little TC Reverb. That package delivers superb results.

When I don´t want to carry or or play in a situation where the stage is loud I only use a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal as a preamp which also works fine together with the DAZZO.

Thanks for the info i checked those DTAR and DPA4061 and it's too much for me. It's good to know that the GE-7 Works, it's one of the things i had in mind

Originally Posted by Spook

Given your price range and a desire to not muck with your guitar too much, a decent quality soundhole pickup (the mid-price ones are generally just fine) and an acoustic amp are all you need. The amp will handle the preamp part for you and give you some EQ. It's all you need.

Thanks, but I wouldn't like to use an amp if possible, btw which soundhole pickup do you recommend?

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I have two Trance Amulet M Dual Mono M-VT systems and I like the volume and tone controls because they give a measure of handy control. With all EQ set flat on a mixer or amp, I find the M-VT's Tone wheel especially useful because I can dial-in a nicely balanced tone by strumming and turning the wheel slowly until I hear all frequency-ranges fall into balance. The Trance Amulet M Dual Mono system is modular in that there are three available configurations: Straight system; M-V system, and M-VT system with the only difference being a particular wire-harness with/without a small sound-hole module. In other words, later on, you can alter whatever system you've bought by just ordering a different wire harness from Trance. Another plus for ordering either the M-V or M-VT system is these configurations have a battery-condition light on the sound-hole module. The light gives a few hours warning before a battery change.

I generally run my Martin HD-28 with installed Trance Amulet M Dual Mono M-VT straight into my Line 6 L2t or my previous Bose L1 Model II with T1 ToneMatch. I try to keep all EQ flat. Occasionally, for fun, I'll play with my TC Helicon VoiceLive 2 between my guitar and vocal mic and the PA system. I use the VoiceLive 2 for vocal harmony and reverb. I use a bit of unobtrusive reverb on the Martin. I don't use other effects on an acoustic guitar because I find they seem to distance the immediacy of a guitar's tone from my ears.

A nice example of a Trance Amulet M Dual Mono being used with a tremolo effect is in this video recently posted by Maury of Maury's music:

Thanks a lot for the info, that clip sounds amazing!! i'd love to get a tone like that live!

[Schau_ins_Regal]

Originally Posted by jipiboi

Thanks for the info i checked those DTAR and DPA4061 and it's too much for me. It's good to know that the GE-7 Works, it's one of the things i had in mind

You can buy the DPA used for 50-100. Would never pay the new price.

Originally Posted by jipiboi

Thanks, but I wouldn't like to use an amp if possible, btw which soundhole pickup do you recommend?

None if you want a natural sound and don´t play on extremely loud stages.

Originally Posted by jipiboi

Thanks a lot for the info, that clip sounds amazing!! i'd love to get a tone like that live!

Then buy the Amulet system.

[jipiboi]

Originally Posted by Schau_ins_Regal

Then buy the Amulet system.

Do you know if anything else is being added in that clip? like another preamp, pedals or something?

[Schau_ins_Regal]

Originally Posted by jipiboi

Do you know if anything else is being added in that clip? like another preamp, pedals or something?

In the comment to the video he states that he uses a Radial PZ Deluxe.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Schau_ins_Regal

In the comment to the video he states that he uses a Radial PZ Deluxe.

I think in another post or thread Maury mentioned he uses the Radial only for its Phase Switch (the Bose T1 and Trance doesn't have one), and that the clip was recorded using the mics on an iPhone 6s.

[c70man]

I have used almost every brand out here over the years.....for just a clip on, its hard to beat a Baggs......that being said, I'd go with Piezio's, JJB are the best bang for the money.

Easy install and you can experiment where to place them. In my case I had (3-piezio) under the bridge divided equally across the saddle....used superglue gel...holds instantly.

[Spook]

If you are going to play with a band, including drummer, you'll need something well behaved. I would not be concerned 'natural'. If you're running through moderately priced PA speakers at band volumes having a good sound that you can control is going to be hard enough.

I prefer the Sunrise pickup to anything else as the volume goes up. They are expensive. However, you do not have to pay to have one installed assuming you or a friend can solder the jack. Also if you want to change to something else they simply unbolt and can be sold for a good portion of their purchase price. This mitigates cost. Not something you can do with a glue in solution.

All acoustic guitar pickups are flawed. Trance, K&K, magnetics.. they are all compromises. They are also limited by how they are installed, your EQ, the quality of the circuitry, and, significantly, the speakers you run them through. They are even more constrained as the volume goes up and you quickly discover the value of low pass and notch filters. Also with some set ups you have to consider stage noise, your arm rubbing on the guitar, and low level sympathetic vibrations. Magnetic pickups are the most behaved while some of the alternatives become unusable as the volume rises.

An amp would be still be my choice because it offers independence, a direct out to the PA, works as a monitor, and doesn't cost much more than a preamp. However, if you want a moderately priced preamp I would choose one from Radial Engineering. They build good stuff. If you can afford it, I recommend the Grace Design Alix. I have their Felix model and it puts everything else in the shade using any one of my K&K, Schertler, or Sunrise equipped guitars. Not to mention the real-live-honest-to-goodness studio quality preamp.

It's a long learning process that only really works hands on. I guess you know not to listen too much to anything online. So good luck with your initial choices and I hope they work well for you.

[Schau_ins_Regal]

Originally Posted by Spook

I prefer the Sunrise pickup to anything else as the volume goes up. They are expensive. However, you do not have to pay to have one installed assuming you or a friend can solder the jack. Also if you want to change to something else they simply unbolt and can be sold for a good portion of their purchase price. This mitigates cost. Not something you can do with a glue in solution.

I also had a Sunrise and from my perspective they are useless as a single source. However they can be useful to deliver a foundation for a second and more natural sounding pickup. That´s one reason why I sold mine. Another reason that might not be that relevant in this thread is that I think it is sensless to put that pickup in a high-end guitar like my Goodall GC. I would use that pickup only in cheaper guitars because it cannot convey the quality of a guitar anyway imo.

[Spook]

Originally Posted by Schau_ins_Regal

<snip> I think it is sensless to put that pickup in a high-end guitar like my Goodall GC. I would use that pickup only in cheaper guitars because it cannot convey the quality of a guitar anyway imo.

My Goodall (a nice EIR Hawaiian GC) has a Sunrise sometimes.. Schertler AG6 w/mic other times. My Kinscherff, a brazilian High Noon that Jamie is quite proud of, also has a Sunrise off and on. I have many guitars and many pickups. As well as PA's, amps, and preamps which actually have as much bearing on the sound as the guitar. Doesn't mean I know anything. But it has helped to teach me that guitars and amplification are very, very subjective and in the end, a person's opinion is only fully applicable, and 'relevant', within a fairly narrow context of application, playing style, and individual predisposition. I play jazz, blues, and rock with a pick. Usually solo. My setup using a Sunrise, Grace Design Felix, and Schertler Jam 150 speakers sounds pretty good to me. If I played fingerstyle I would likely prefer a different type of pickup(s). If I wanted to play fingerstyle in a band, I would give up guitar and switch to banjo because it's simply too hard.

Thing is, magnetic pickups are much easier to control at high volumes. I don't think that's subjective. Getting a true high fidelity sound at band volumes is quite difficult and expensive well beyond the transducer choice.