What's more important Pickup or Preamp??

[drive-south]

I also want to mention the "vintage jack" for people installing a pickup in a guitar that is not a Taylor and is not pre-drilled for a 1/4" ending jack. The vintage jack fits into a standard end pin hole and requires no drilling. It works with a 1/8" mini jack. If you have a vintage guitar or one you don't want to modify this is an option.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by jipiboi

Hi guys!

I recently bought a Taylor 812 which i love how it sounds and i've been thinking about getting a pickups system to amplify the sound to play live in band context and also just by myself, i'm fairly new to acoustic pickups but i've been reading a lot of posts, articles, reviews and so on.

I want to get a pickup system that is not invasive, no drilling or anything like that to my guitar, and from what i've read i've found this 3 pickups pretty good, according to the reviews and videos i've seen.

1. Seymour Duncan Mag Mic.
2. Fishman Rare Earth.
3. K&K Pure Mini.

I have a couple of questions.

1. Do you really get a big difference in sound with a pickup in this price vs another one that is a lot cheaper, like a Woody seymour duncan??

2. What's more important a good pickup with no pre-amp or a cheap preamp, or a eq pedal or something similar?? or a Good preamp with a cheap (woody seymour duncan type) pickup?? or a nice balance between the 2 ?

3. What's the difference between the Rare Earth Single coil and the Humbucker??? why would you choose one or the other??

4. What's another pickup that you'd recommend in that price range (below $200) for a Taylor guitar, that doesn't add brightness. (which is why i left out the LR Baggs pickups, is that a fair assessment? )


Sorry for the long post and all the questions, but now that i've read and now a little bit more, i need your experience, thanks in advance!

If you don't mind spending $279, check out the Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono Acoustic Guitar Pickup System. Trance also offers the more expensive Trance Audio Amulet Stereo Acoustic Guitar Pickup System.

Trance systems are what Neil Young, Paul Simon, Jackson Browne and Michael Hedges use and when you consider the systems include an audiophile-grade preamp, they're not as expensive as you first may perceive them to be. Your Taylor 812 already has a 1/2-inch endpin hole so there is absolutely NO DRILLING/REAMING, GUITAR ALTERATION OR SOLDERING INVOLVED in installing a Trance system and since they use a strong but easily removable adhesive for the two transducers, the systems are completely removable without damaging either the system or the guitar. These systems aren't any more difficult to install than any other system and unlike a K&K, which uses superglue, you can relocate the transducers as many times as you wish to get the amplified tone you're seeking.

Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono System: http://www.tranceaudio.com/amuletm.html

Trance Audio Amulet Stereo System: http://www.tranceaudio.com/amulet.html

Trance systems are available from our AGF sponsor, Maury's Music: http://www.maurysmusic.com/trance_audio_pickups

[barricwiley]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

I'm a big fan of the K&K mini. I have several of them installed in the guitars I use in my performances. I'd also suggest getting the best pre-amp you can afford. Why detract from the sound of a good pick-up?

Okay then, -- My head is spinning a bit.

I have a Martin D41, and a Taylor 812. Both guitars are fitted with a K&K Pure Mini pickup. I play through a Fishman Artist amp.


I would like to have the best preamp I can get my hands on.

Do I need a preamp, and if I do, which one would be the best. I don't know zip about preamps so any help in that direction would be appreciated.

Thanks for the advice.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

If you don't mind spending $279, check out the Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono Acoustic Guitar Pickup System. Trance also offers the more expensive Trance Audio Amulet Stereo Acoustic Guitar Pickup System.

Trance systems are what Neil Young, Paul Simon, Jackson Browne and Michael Hedges use and when you consider that they include an audiophile-grade preamp, they're not as expensive as you first may perceive them to be. Your Taylor 812 already has a 1/2-inch endpin hole so there is absolutely NO DRILLING/REAMING, GUITAR ALTERATION OR SOLDERING INVOLVED in installing a Trance system and since they use a strong but easily removable adhesive for the two transducers, the systems are completely removable without damaging either the system or the guitar. These systems aren't any more difficult to install than any other system and unlike a K&K, which uses superglue, you can relocate the transducers as many times as you wish to get the amplified tone you're seeking.

Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono System: http://www.tranceaudio.com/amuletm.html

Trance Audio Amulet Stereo System: http://www.tranceaudio.com/amulet.html

Trance systems are available from our AGF sponsor, Maury's Music: http://www.maurysmusic.com/trance_audio_pickups

I do think the Amulet (as demoed by Maury) is absolutely great. I was between the Amulet MVT and the K&K Ultra system.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Nick84]

Originally Posted by barricwiley

Okay then, -- My head is spinning a bit.

I have a Martin D41, and a Taylor 812. Both guitars are fitted with a K&K Pure Mini pickup. I play through a Fishman Artist amp.


I would like to have the best preamp I can get my hands on.

Do I need a preamp, and if I do, which one would be the best. I don't know zip about preamps so any help in that direction would be appreciated.

Thanks for the advice.

You shouldn't need a preamp if your going straight into an acoustic amp. You would certainly benefit from one if you were going into a PA

[Vancebo]

Good advice given here. A sound board pickup might be the best bet lately. Those are the ones already mentioned. K&K has been around awhile and developed a great reputation and well deserved. JJB is a lower cost version. Most would say that you would need EQ to make them sound their best.

The Trance Amulet and Dazzo pickups are newer kids on the block and in my opinion and experience, they have a unique advantage. I believe they would be even more acoustic sounding, closer to a mic surrounding your fine guitar but with more punch. The advantage is they can be moved safely without damage to either your guitar or the pickups themselves and repositioned until you are satisfied with the sound. You can almost achieve your ideal tone with the EQ set flat at the mixer. The big difference between the two is that the Dazzo is just the pickup and an end pin like the K&K and the Trance has an internal preamp. I prefer the less-inside-my-guitar approach and then have have the best outboard preamp that I can find. It's no secret that I have trumpeting the brilliance of the Dazzos here on this forum for the last couple of months but I don't want to do it by making people think that there aren't other good choices out there as well. I have had a lot of experience with various pickups I really believe that there is something "more" into the design of these pickups. BTW, what you find inside a Dazzo will be different than what you will find inside a Trance. But that's another story.

[barricwiley]

Originally Posted by Nick84

You shouldn't need a preamp if your going straight into an acoustic amp. You would certainly benefit from one if you were going into a PA

Thank you so much for the wisdom.
Everyone has given terrific advice, but, if I don't need one to play straight off the Artist then I am good.

Thanks again, Richard

[Fairlight]

IMO, I wouldn't call a Taylor 812 a "high-end" guitar. I have an 816 and I see it as more of a workhorse. High-end to me would be an Olsen, Froggy or McPherson--wouldn't dream of drilling into those (or leaving fingerprints on!). For a, 812 I would go with a streamlined, pro-installation of the E2. They are specifically designed by and for Taylors. I was an Anthem fan, but the new E2 pick ups on mine sound really good going direct and the little rubber dials, tweak-ably helpful and visibly unobtrusive. It also matches wonderfully with a ParaDI or similar for extra juice, EQ and insert FX.

[Schau_ins_Regal]

Originally Posted by Fairlight

IMO, I wouldn't call a Taylor 812 a "high-end" guitar.

Who considered the 812 as a high end guitar? Can´t find a post saying that...

[Schau_ins_Regal]

Originally Posted by Fairlight

High-end to me would be an Olsen, Froggy or McPherson--wouldn't dream of drilling into those (or leaving fingerprints on!).

Wouldn´t mind to drill a hole for an endpin jack in any of those. Even if the guitar costs 20 thousands, I can´t see a reason why I shouldn´t drill that hole...

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by barricwiley

Okay then, -- My head is spinning a bit.

I have a Martin D41, and a Taylor 812. Both guitars are fitted with a K&K Pure Mini pickup. I play through a Fishman Artist amp.


I would like to have the best preamp I can get my hands on.

Do I need a preamp, and if I do, which one would be the best. I don't know zip about preamps so any help in that direction would be appreciated.

Thanks for the advice.

You might look at the grace felix pre.
They have 2 channels
You can eq both guitars seperAtly...
They arent cheap..1k.

[Fairlight]

Actually you did, Schau_ins_Regal. Though the phrase you used was "higher priced". I used as "high-end".

From my point of view thes knobs at the sides are absolutely awkward and a no-go for a higher priced guitar.

And also to clarify, I wouldn't drill into a $10k guitar myself (or any guitar actually) or trust it to anyone except the builder. If my new Olsen came pre-installed with the pick-up of my choosing from the point of origin, I'd be totally fine with that.

[Schau_ins_Regal]

Originally Posted by Fairlight

Actually you did, Schau_ins_Regal. Though the phrase was "higher priced". I used as "high-end".

From my point of view thes knobs at the sides are absolutely awkward and a no-go for a higher priced guitar.

I don´t consider these terms to be equivalent. I think of higher priced as maybe 2k and above, high end as maybe 5k and above. With the premise that the premise reflects the quality of the guitar.

[otavio]

First - Pickup, Second - EQ, Third - Preamp



Anyone tried Matching EQ with KK ?!
I got VERY VERY good results with this technique....

For those who doesnt know what i´m talking about.

[jipiboi]

First of all thanks a loooot to everybody for your responses and suggestions, i appreciate them! My taylor is a 2014 model so the endpin drilling is not necessary.

I'm still undecided on which one to choose, now that you have presented some other really good options, a quick question, nobody commented on the mag mic, is it a bad pickup? it caught my attention with the built in mic on the pickup and I've heard nice recordings on youtube, so just wondering what's the actual experience from people that have use it.

From you comments i think the favorite one is somekind of K&K mini combination, I need to read more on that cause they look very different and with different applications.

The Dazzo and Trance Audio looks nice as well but again I need to read more.

Originally Posted by Wolfram Slides

The pickup and preamp are both important, though I would say on balance the choice of pickup is probably slightly more important. Getting the basic tone right is key - no amount of EQ or other preamp processing will make up for a bad basic tone from the pickup.

Also, not all preamps work as well with all pickups. I've always used, and highly recommend, the K&K PWM coupled with the K&K Pure XLR preamp - I know that they are matched, and the basic tone is very natural. The preamp gives you enough control over the tone, includes a phase switch which can help with matching your setup to the PA and room acoustics (as well as helping to minimise feedback), plus it can be powered from the phantom power of a mixing desk, so you don't need batteries.

Cheers,
David

Thanks for the explanation, this sounds really nice in a couple of videos i've found!

Originally Posted by martingitdave

If you install yourself, you can get a K&K UltraPure system for $175 with internal preamp. It is equally as good as ES2. External preamps are just fine but need to be impedance matched. The K&K works well with their preamps. The new body res pedals are a great addition too.

I don't care for mag sound hole pickups any more.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Thanks a lot for the suggestion, where can i get it from $175 I went to the K&K Page and it tells me the Price si $282: http://kksound.com/products/ultrapuresystem.php

Another thing, i was under the impression that the Bodyrez pedal work best (or only) with Under saddle pickups do you use it with your ultra pure?
what was the major problem you had with the mag soundhole pickups?

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

If you don't mind spending $279, check out the Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono Acoustic Guitar Pickup System. Trance also offers the more expensive Trance Audio Amulet Stereo Acoustic Guitar Pickup System.

Trance systems are what Neil Young, Paul Simon, Jackson Browne and Michael Hedges use and when you consider that they include an audiophile-grade preamp, they're not as expensive as you first may perceive them to be. Your Taylor 812 already has a 1/2-inch endpin hole so there is absolutely NO DRILLING/REAMING, GUITAR ALTERATION OR SOLDERING INVOLVED in installing a Trance system and since they use a strong but easily removable adhesive for the two transducers, the systems are completely removable without damaging either the system or the guitar. These systems aren't any more difficult to install than any other system and unlike a K&K, which uses superglue, you can relocate the transducers as many times as you wish to get the amplified tone you're seeking.

Thanks a lot for this info, looks very nice, is it the same installation as the K&K ? why do you prefer this over the K&K or Dazzo?

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I do think the Amulet (as demoed by Maury) is absolutely great. I was between the Amulet MVT and the K&K Ultra system.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Which did you choose and why??

Originally Posted by Vancebo

The Trance Amulet and Dazzo pickups are newer kids on the block and in my opinion and experience, they have a unique advantage. I believe they would be even more acoustic sounding, closer to a mic surrounding your fine guitar but with more punch. The advantage is they can be moved safely without damage to either your guitar or the pickups themselves and repositioned until you are satisfied with the sound. You can almost achieve your ideal tone with the EQ set flat at the mixer. The big difference between the two is that the Dazzo is just the pickup and an end pin like the K&K and the Trance has an internal preamp. I prefer the less-inside-my-guitar approach and then have have the best outboard preamp that I can find. It's no secret that I have trumpeting the brilliance of the Dazzos here on this forum for the last couple of months but I don't want to do it by making people think that there aren't other good choices out there as well. I have had a lot of experience with various pickups I really believe that there is something "more" into the design of these pickups. BTW, what you find inside a Dazzo will be different than what you will find inside a Trance. But that's another story.

Thanks for the response and info!!
I couldn't find that many clips of the Dazzo sound, and the installation though.
What do you mean about the insides of the Dazzo and Trance?
What preamp do you use with the Dazzo?
I was checking the website and it offers different ratios for the pickups, how do you select the best option for your guitar? the info in the website it's a little vague.