#61
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Then - and I'm not sure quite when but I'm sure it's possible to find out - makers started to use wood as a sales hype, initially for acoustic guitars wherein the sound of the strings is amplified by the body of the guitar and it might be thought that the type of wood used for their construction might make a difference to the resulting sound (although quite how much difference here too is debatable). This hype was then transfered - without any attempt to justify or quantify it - to electric guitars wherein the sound of the strings is amplified by a completely different principle, viz. electromagnetic induction. This luthier agrees with me: http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm Some information on the principle of electromagnetic induction and about pick-ups here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_(music_technology) Last edited by Garthman; 04-13-2011 at 03:38 AM. |
#62
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Well, I would have no hesitation in offering a different opinion to one you might hold if I disagreed with it but I wouldn't dream of twisting your words.
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#63
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Gartman writes:
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“A truly magnificent instrument with its natural mahogany back and neck, while the top is in gleaming gold with contrasting ivory trim.” — Original Gibson advertisement, circa 1955 ...and there are many more early ads that talks about specific woods and their tonal as well as visual attributes. True, today we are obsessive about tonewoods, in part because now we have flashy looking, inexpensive, laminate top guitars on which appearance trumps tone. But pre-1971 folks did indeed talk about the playing attributes of particular woods.....
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My YouTube Page: http://www.youtube.com/user/ukejon 2014 Pono N30 DC EIR/Spruce crossover 2009 Pono koa parlor (NAMM prototype) 2018 Maton EBG808TEC 2014 Hatcher Greta 13 fret cutaway in EIR/cedar 2017 Hatcher Josie fan fret mahogany 1973 Sigma GCR7 (OM model) rosewood and spruce 2014 Rainsong OM1000N2 ....and about 5 really nice tenor ukuleles at any given moment |
#64
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#65
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Yes (and again), the sound is coming from the pickups amplifying the strings vibrating in the magnetic field. I'm pretty sure that every single electric guitar player understands that extremely simple concept. What you seem to be avoiding is the fact that the string's vibration is very much dependent upon the wood it is strung on. |
#66
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#67
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So... when I sit and play my Rickenbacker 650D (maple thru neck, walnut body) unplugged, and I can feel it vibrate and resonate as I strum it, that either has nothing to do with the wood, or I'm imagining it, or both?
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Martin 0-16NY Emerald Amicus Emerald X20 Cordoba Stage Some of my tunes: https://youtube.com/user/eatswodo |
#68
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That said, it seems that the opinion you have developed is extremely firm...which is really no problem until you assert it as fact, and then demand others to prove it wrong when it should be your responsibility to convince others that all known empirical evidence and facts are incorrect and that your opinion is fact. If you wish to state that known facts and evidence are invalid, you should be providing some solid evidence that either backs up your claim, or discredits currently known facts. Telling people they're wrong simply because you're older than they are and have more anecdotal evidence is just kind of silly. TL;DR - In other words, my problem with this discussion is less about your opinion, and more about your approach to discussing it and method of trying to convince others it is fact. |
#69
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Again, unless you quantify just how minute the the body influence is, you are making an assumption.
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#70
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Garthman, according to you, a piece of spruce, vibrating at 440 times a second shouldn't sound any different than a piece of cedar vibrating at 440 times a second.
Tell me why there's a difference in sound? After all, it's just air movement. Last edited by macleay; 04-13-2011 at 05:58 PM. |
#71
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Eatswodo and Macleay
Of course you can hear a difference in sound between spruce and cedar and feel and hear the sound of the body of an electric guitar when it is played acoustically - I've never said that you can't. You can hear a difference because the vibrating wood causes air molecules to vibrate and that vibration is carried to your ears. However a magnetic pick-up does not "hear" vibrating air moleclues or wood. A magnetic pick-up can only detect a vibrating ferrous metal. Vibrating air and wood has no affect at all on a magnetic pick-up. If you follow the link I posted in post #61 above you can read a scientific explanation of how a pick-up works. |
#72
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So would a balsa wood Les Paul sound the same as a mahogany Les Paul?
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My YouTube Page: http://www.youtube.com/user/ukejon 2014 Pono N30 DC EIR/Spruce crossover 2009 Pono koa parlor (NAMM prototype) 2018 Maton EBG808TEC 2014 Hatcher Greta 13 fret cutaway in EIR/cedar 2017 Hatcher Josie fan fret mahogany 1973 Sigma GCR7 (OM model) rosewood and spruce 2014 Rainsong OM1000N2 ....and about 5 really nice tenor ukuleles at any given moment |
#73
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I and several of my friends were once challenged by another friend to distinguish an all plastic electric guitar from a few all wooden ones by listening to each played through the same amp. None of us could do it. Some of us liked one rather than another (which you would expect in a random group) but we couldn't tell from the sound which was the plastic one - we all had to admit we were guessing. Try it some time. |
#74
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#75
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In an electric guitar the vibrating strings are amplified because the magnetic flux of the pick-up is disturbed which generates a small electric current in the PU windings which is then tranfered to the amplifier which amplifies the current and sends the signal to the loudspeaker which (by the same principle as the pick-up but in reverse) converts the electrical signal back into mechanical energy setting the speaker diaphram vibrating which causes air molecules to vibrate and carry the sound to the ear. Acoustic and electric guitars are very different animals. Their only common feature is that they both produce the initial sound by a vibrating string - after that they go their separate ways and use two different scientific principles to amplify the sound of the string. Alas many people think they are similar which is probably how the "wood" myth has arisen in electric guitars. The myth is reinforced because people hear that an electric guitar played unamplified sounds like a very weak acoustic guitar and assume that the sound their ears hear is amplified by the pick-up. It isn't - the pick-up only responds to a vibrating ferrous metal, not air, not plastic, not wood. When you "hear" an electric guitar played amplified you are actually not hearing the guitar at all - you are hearing a loudspeaker. Last edited by Garthman; 04-14-2011 at 06:31 AM. |