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  #1  
Old 02-10-2018, 02:11 PM
Osage Osage is offline
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Default Nitrocellulose Lacquer. How bad is it for you?

I just got out of the booth where I'm spraying my current build and I got to wondering just how bad lacquer is for us? I spray with a respirator, long sleeves and gloves. My booth is in my shop and even with the door closed I can still smell a bit of lacquer for a few hours after spraying. Does anyone know just how bad it is?
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:48 PM
M Hayden M Hayden is offline
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Wear a good filter mask and eye protection when using it, and vent through filters if possible.

It’s a sensitizer, so it’s possible to become allergic to it.

Rad the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for your lacquer to find out more. Here’s one nitro lacquer MSDS; it indicates the sort of data you’ll find in others, and risks.

http://www.kapci.com/Portals/0/KAPCI...1_%28GB%29.pdf
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:47 PM
Osage Osage is offline
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Thanks. I've read that stuff before but virtually every paint/solvent has the same warnings. I guess I'm wondering if it's much worse, as bad etc...

I build 5-8 guitars a year and do wear a good mask etc...
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:35 PM
redir redir is offline
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If you can smell it then that means it's getting inside you. It mostly affects full time workers but still even hobbyists can develop a sensitization to it. I actually like the smell of the stuff, go figure. But I try and avoid it at all cost

I only spray outdoors.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:56 PM
hearsedriver hearsedriver is offline
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I use to build professional level 5-string banjos for a living and sprayed lots and lots of nitro lacquer. Even using a booth with a good exhaust fan and mask, I still managed to damage my lungs. I have asthma now. Your lungs cannot expel the lacquer that you breath. Be very careful. My booth was too small which probably exacerbated the problem. Ventilation is everything. Good luck!
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:24 PM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Everyone reacts differently, that is the problem these days.

People know smoking causes cancer, some people can smoke their whole life with no issues, others can breathe second hand smoke and start to suffer the consequences from it.

Paint is exactly the same, two pack is a known carcinogen, some people have adverse reactions, most never do.

Any substance you breathe has the potential risk of doing damage or causing an allergic reaction.

Its up to you to protect yourself the best you can, nitro is IMO no more dangerous than every other paint on the market

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Old 02-13-2018, 07:42 PM
Sperry Sperry is offline
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Two years ago I did a few coats on a small instrument in my kitchen. Proper respirator and a big box fan in the window. I'll NEVER take on a project like that again, not in my house.

Does it release toxic fumes when it is curing/drying?
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:27 PM
Wozer Wozer is offline
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how bad?

it's, of course, relative...

you MUST have a properly fitted respirator (this means a VERY short beard, or preferably NO facial hair)...you test this by covering the filter canisters (carbon of course) and breathing in, if there is no vacuum effect NO GO, fit again***edit***and let's NOT forget proper exhaust of fumes from wherever you are spraying

without a doubt it is worse than latex paints used in your house...probably comparable to oil based paints (I react worse to oil based stuff than lacquers on an "allergic" level), and also comparable to most other modern clear coats.

is it dangerous when off gassing (curing)? YES!!!

lacquer is a very forgiving finish that is the litmus test for the concept of burning in (e.g. very easily repaired in that new coats melt into the old coats) with other modern waterborne finishes. but it is dangerous in various ways and should as such be treated with "respect" (for one's self and those around) and caution. be aware modern water based clears are also as dangerous while spraying, but off gas very quickly and are safe to expose yourself and others in a far shorter time span.

Last edited by Wozer; 02-13-2018 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:22 PM
Alan Carruth Alan Carruth is offline
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I used to spray nitro outdoors with just a dust mask, back when I was invincible. Now I can't open a can of lacquer without regretting it for several days.

I was told once that the least toxic thing in lacquer thinner is toluene, which is toxic at a level 1/10 of what you can smell.

A recent article in (iirc) Science News, talked about the problems museums are having with plastics. They listed two as 'toxic': nitrocellulose and cellulose acetate. They break down over time, and release nitric and acetic acids, respectively, which attack other objects in the collections. Items made from these need to be isolated from everything else in the collection to avoid damaging them. Many modern guitars use nitro finishes and acetate bindings.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:24 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I'm told by British luthiers that in the UK/EU there are VERY strict laws about the chemicals used for finishing guitars.

"COSHH" = Control of Substances Hazardous to Health Regulations 2002,
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  #11  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:44 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Carruth View Post
I used to spray nitro outdoors with just a dust mask, back when I was invincible. Now I can't open a can of lacquer without regretting it for several days.
I was also invincible back then, even though I used a respirator. I've long since switched to water-based products, though I'm not sure they are any better. My experience has been that most finishing products are pretty nasty stuff. Less exposure is better.

Serge de Jonge, at a presentation he made, stated that he now uses shellac/French polish, having found the water-based products just as bad, maybe worse, than nitro. He stated that he uses shellac for health reasons.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:04 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
I was also invincible back then, even though I used a respirator. I've long since switched to water-based products, though I'm not sure they are any better. My experience has been that most finishing products are pretty nasty stuff. Less exposure is better.

Serge de Jonge, at a presentation he made, stated that he now uses shellac/French polish, having found the water-based products just as bad, maybe worse, than nitro. He stated that he uses shellac for health reasons.
Think about a sovent based lacquer, the solvent itself helps successive coats "cut in" to the last. Water won't cut in to a finish, so whatever chemicals they use that are carried in the water to help the finish cut onto the last coat cannot be any good.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:14 PM
redir redir is offline
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It's always been my understanding that water base is more like a varnish in that it does NOT cut into the coats below it but rather it just forms another layer. That's what I love about Nitro so much. I can touch up a guitar that was built in 1930 with nitro today and it will melt into it just like it was finished yesterday. Sand through water base and you are screwed. Or at least you used to be, I've not messed with it for many years since I could never get a good finish with it.

For me today it's 95% Shellac finishing. A bit of varnish, and if someone really wants Nitro then they are going to have to wait for the dry summer months so I can spray outside.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:24 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
It's always been my understanding that water base is more like a varnish in that it does NOT cut into the coats below it but rather it just forms another layer. That's what I love about Nitro so much. I can touch up a guitar that was built in 1930 with nitro today and it will melt into it just like it was finished yesterday. Sand through water base and you are screwed. Or at least you used to be, I've not messed with it for many years since I could never get a good finish with it.

For me today it's 95% Shellac finishing. A bit of varnish, and if someone really wants Nitro then they are going to have to wait for the dry summer months so I can spray outside.
Not with waterborne lacquers.. they are designed to cut in, at least as i understand it.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2018, 06:35 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouieAtienza View Post
Not with waterborne lacquers.. they are designed to cut in, at least as i understand it.
None that I've used. The latest I've used are Target 6000 and 7000: you don't want to sand through them, else you'll have witness lines.
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