New guitar search (or how I learned to stop worrying and love the D-18)

[pbla4024]

Originally Posted by wxfloyd

Ideally I’m looking for something that has the even response and mid range of an OM, but with a little more low end. Not necessarily full-on dread low end, but just enough to carry well with maybe a mandolin.

Maybe deep body OM?

[cmd612]

Originally Posted by pbla4024

Maybe deep body OM?

or a Martin 0000/M size?

[WindKnot]

For what it's worth, I also have a D-03. Mine is a couple year older than yours, blackwood back and sides.

I recently pick up a D-18 variant with Swiss alpine top and GE bracing.

The Larrivee sounds great. My Martin sounds great also. However, there is definitely a difference to the sound. I'll run my Martin through a few bluegrass numbers and fiddle tunes and then give it a go on the Larrivee. While the Larrivee sounds good, it doesn't fit THAT sound, if you know what I mean.

Not sure if that helps-enjoy the search!

[Elroy Bean]

Originally Posted by wxfloyd

Ok, couldn't resist with the silly (and slightly misleading) title.

I've been on quite a search looking for my next guitar (THE guitar, TBH), which will be my only guitar, at least for quite a while. I've been all over the place. In the last 2 months, I've gone through a Larrivee OM-02, an Eastman hog OM, and currently a Martin OM-15 (LA Guitars custom model). Alongside these has been my Larrivee D-03 that I've owned for about 10 years. All great guitars, with their own unique voices, but none that really had that "it" tone I've been searching for. I've been wanting to really like OM's, mostly for their more mid-range presence and comfortable body style, but my ears keep gravitating towards bigger body styles that provide that little extra "oomph" in the low-end. I also do like my Larrivee, but I'm now finding that a 1 3/4 nut width is much more comfortable than the 1 11/16 on my D-03. I also find the Martin necks/fretboard radius more comfortable than my Larrivee. My tastes in music have changed as well since I bought my Larrivee in 2009. Then I mostly played just rock, but now my playing styles lean to more folk/bluegrass, with some occasional rock/classic rock songs thrown in. I also play mandolin and want something that will go nicely with that when I do the occasional home recording.

Last week I took a trip to Wildwood Guitars in Louisville, CO. I tried out two D-18's and a Taylor 324e, as it has been in my sights as well. The D-18's were nice guitars, played nice and sounded good, but didn't really wow me over my D-03. Even one of the salespeople said he was surprised at how they sounded a little muted and not as lively as he expected. The Taylor was pretty nice too, but again just didn't quite do it for me.
The problem I'm having is that nearly every sound clip and youtube video I hear of a D-18 sounds great: open, loud yet subtle and responsive when lightly strummed or fingerpicked, and has that classic Martin tone that I keep gravitating to.

Would it be plausible that what I heard at Wildwood is just a new guitar that hasn't been "played in" yet and just needs some playing time to get to that point? Perhaps it had dull strings that needed changing (as the salesperson suggested). Or, have I just had bad luck at playing a couple of duds?
I've also been considering a Taylor 314. I played one a while back at Denver Folklore Center that seemed pretty good, but as I mentioned, my ears seem to lean toward the Martin tone over the more modern Taylor tone. The one complaint I had when playing the 324 was the very apparent high-end shimmer, which I wondered if could be fixed with strings other than Elixirs.

I also have been eyeing the Martin OM-21, as I really enjoyed playing one at Denver Folklore as well. Again, though, I was missing that lower end from the larger-body guitars. I may have to go back and try that one again, but it seems no matter which path I take, I keep coming back to guitars with more low-end than an OM can provide.

VERY long story short, I'm trying to figure out if my experience at Wildwood is what I should expect from about every D-18, or if I should take a chance with buying one online from an AGF sponser like My Favorite Guitars or Maury's, where I won't have a chance to try it out in person. If I do go that route, I'll definitely call them first to get their thoughts on the specific guitar they have in stock. On paper, the D-18 has just about everything I'm looking for in a guitar, both for tone and aesthetics.

Sorry for the long rambling. This will be the most I've ever spent on a guitar, by a long shot, and I want to make sure I'm making the right decision.

One thing, if the D-18 models you tried didn't really "speak to you," then I would advise holding off. If it's the one it shouldn't have to be played upon with the hope of it opening up, it should already sound great, IMHO.

[djg]

Originally Posted by wxfloyd

Thanks everyone for all of your advice and first hand experience. Ed-in-Ohio said it best, I need to trust my gut. When I tried the D-18's at Wildwood Guitars, my gut said to not pull the trigger. Now thats not to say that a D-18 isn't in my future, but as many of you have said, I'm just going to continue trying out guitars (be it Martin, Taylor, Eastman, whatever) and not rush the process. And to be honest, I'm still on the fence about mahogany vs. rosewood (or other tonewoods). Other Larrivees (OM-40R's to be exact) have been on my radar recently too, but without the ability to try them out first hand, I'm hesitant to buy one without playing it first.

Thanks again everyone.

This is a perfectly sensible approach. You have a guitar you like and you're looking for one you'll love. So take your time, play various guitars, reinforce and/or refine your sense of what you're looking for, and wait for something that does what you want.

It's a terrific model, the D-18, and there's always some guitar-to-guitar variation, the room, the strings, etc., but none of that means that a different D-18 will be exactly what you're looking for, especially if different is just ordered at random -- that guitar will probably be a good one, but there's no reason to think it will be a standout or radically different from the ones you've tried already. As for opening up . . . sure, but why guess at any particular reaction? Whether it's a D-18 or something entirely different, you'll find it in time. In the meantime, you have a good guitar to play.

[wxfloyd]

Originally Posted by WindKnot

For what it's worth, I also have a D-03. Mine is a couple year older than yours, blackwood back and sides.

I recently pick up a D-18 variant with Swiss alpine top and GE bracing.

The Larrivee sounds great. My Martin sounds great also. However, there is definitely a difference to the sound. I'll run my Martin through a few bluegrass numbers and fiddle tunes and then give it a go on the Larrivee. While the Larrivee sounds good, it doesn't fit THAT sound, if you know what I mean.

Not sure if that helps-enjoy the search!

I know exactly what you mean. That's what I've been hearing in my head, and why I was a little surprised when the D-18 didn't sound dramatically different than my D-03, which btw has genuine Honduran mahogany back and sides. I think I need to play some more rosewood guitars to see if perhaps that is what I'm wanting.

Originally Posted by pbla4024

Maybe deep body OM?

I've been looking for some deep body OM's. The martin variety seem to be either a) out of my price range, which is capped at $2k. Ideally I'd like to spend less (who doesn't), but that's my cap. Or b) they still have shorter scale necks. I guess I'm not 100% set on a 25.5" scale neck, but it is my preference.

Originally Posted by cmd612

or a Martin 0000/M size?

Huh oh! You might be on to something with the M-36. Never really considered that guitar because it had a 1 11/16" nut. The new 2018 version looks to have nearly all the specs I want, including now having a 1 3/4" nut. Again though, it'll be difficult to find one locally to try out. But if it essentially is an OM-21 with a little more low end, that's nearly exactly what I'm looking for.
I'd really consider their GP-18E, except I really do not want built-in electronics on my guitar. I've still considered a Taylor 314 (no pickup), as that's fairly close in dimensions to Martin Grand Performance models. But, I just tend to lean more to the Martin style tone than the Taylor style tone.

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Preach on brother Ed!

I would add that sometimes our expectations lead us to disappointment. The Larrivee you have is a fine all solid wood guitar made by hand. It may not be voiced like a Martin, but it isn't junk. So, if you were expecting miracles, I am not surprised you were disappointed. That said, there are some D-18s that might be a step above your well played in Larrivee. The D-18 GE, for instance. Or, maybe you should think about a D-28 to compliment your Larrivee.

I think you hit the head of the nail there. I think I was going in expecting the Martin to just blow away the Larrivee in terms of tone, which it didn't.

[Shortfinger]

I'm in Broomfield, CO, and Wildwood Guitars is a short drive, as is Longmont, CO, with its varied guitar shops.

When I went guitar shopping back in early December, I went to Wildwood, and up in Longmont, to Larry's Guitars and Guitars, Etc.

The three guitars that were standouts, for me, were two at Wildwood, both out of my price range, and one at Larry's.

The Wildwoods were Martins, an HD-7 Roger McGuinn signature 7-string, and a Sugar Ray.

Larry's had a pre-owned Gibson Hummingbird Pro in mint condition, sunburst finish, that felt and sounded quite special.

[mischultz]

Originally Posted by wxfloyd

I'd really consider their GP-18E, except I really do not want built-in electronics on my guitar. I've still considered a Taylor 314 (no pickup), as that's fairly close in dimensions to Martin Grand Performance models. But, I just tend to lean more to the Martin style tone than the Taylor style tone.

There are a couple of Taylor GA5s on Reverb right now. The letter series (DN, GA, etc, ill fated as it may have been) incorporated some changes in design/construction that were geared toward refining the non-amplified character. Nicely appointed and mahogany rather than sapele. Less expensive than a new 314 as well.

[Guitars+gems]

One thing you said that gives me pause is:

On paper, the D-18 has just about everything I'm looking for in a guitar, both for tone and aesthetics.

How can that be? I mean, how can tone be defined on paper? I am with the folks here who are telling you to keep trying guitars. I don't doubt that if you talked to Jon at MFG, or Maury, they'd take your wants very seriously and pick out a great sounding D18 for you. But that's still no guarantee that you would have your socks knocked off. When you find a guitar that does knock your socks off, price will become a secondary considerartion.

I wonder if you have considered any of the other Martin dreads? How about a new D28 or an HD28? They may have the big booming sound you seem to be looking for.

[wxfloyd]

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

One thing you said that gives me pause is:


How can that be? I mean, how can tone be defined on paper? I am with the folks here who are telling you to keep trying guitars. I don't doubt that if you talked to Jon at MFG, or Maury, they'd take your wants very seriously and pick out a great sounding D18 for you. But that's still no guarantee that you would have your socks knocked off. When you find a guitar that does knock your socks off, price will become a secondary considerartion.

I wonder if you have considered any of the other Martin dreads? How about a new D28 or an HD28? They may have the big booming sound you seem to be looking for.

What I meant was not just specs of the guitar, but also the tonal characteristics people have used to describe the D-18.

I have considered some rosewood Martins, not necessarily dreads. In earlier posts I’ve mentioned how I was quite smitten with the OM-21, but for a single guitar, it lacked a little of the low end I’d want. Then cmd612 mentioned a 0000/M body Martin. I started looking into the M-36 and the new 2018 version seems to hit nearly every mark for me, except maybe price. I’ll still try some rosewood dreads when I can too. Many others also mentioned the Eastman E20D.
I should also clarify that I’m not necessarily looking for a big boomy sound, but something with enough low end that could carry in say a duo with a mandolin.

I will likely call both MFG and Maury’s soon just to get their thoughts and perspectives.

[DukeX]

The Martin GP-18 (same price as M-36) might be another option (bigger than a 000, smaller than a dread). Might be hard to find one to play, however.

[wxfloyd]

Originally Posted by DukeX

The Martin GP-18 (same price as M-36) might be another option (bigger than a 000, smaller than a dread). Might be hard to find one to play, however.

I've considered those as well, but I can only find versions with a built-in pickup, and that's one thing I'm fairly rigid on: no built-in electronics. I don't use them, I don't need them.

[ataylor]

After reading through this thread, I think the OP needs to play the new D-28 and the new HD-28. I’m willing to bet one of those two guitars will fit the bill.

[wxfloyd]

Originally Posted by ataylor

After reading through this thread, I think the OP needs to play the new D-28 and the new HD-28. I’m willing to bet one of those two guitars will fit the bill.

They’re on my list now. Just have to hunt down some shops that have them. Admittedly, the HD-28 looks like a very nice guitar, but I might have to look for a few extra pennies to afford that one.

[zmf]

Well -- probably no good reason to mention this -- but you did mention Santa Cruz guitars. There's a Santa Cruz D12 at Woodsong in Boulder. Think it's still there -- they're advertising it on Reverb. Pretty sure it's more than you want to pay, but I've played it, and it's the only guitar that's really grabbed me in a long time. I probably played it for 30 minutes because I didn't want to stop.

Might check it out just for fun.