Harmonic Analysis -- Aid in Memorization?

[Paultergeist]

Greetings.

I have been wrestling with this concept for a while now, and I was curious if others may have had similar experiences or possibly had useful insights to share:

I sometimes struggle with memorization of songs, especially if a lot of songs (several sets) are involved. To some extent, I have performed harmonic analysis -- by which I mean I would look at the song via the (Roman numerals) degrees -- to better understand the song and to see if doing so helped my recall [memory] of the song. From what I gather, some players -- especially jazz players -- think in terms of the numbers and functions of the chords, more so than simply the name of the chord itself. I would like to incorporate that ability into my playing and memorization. I am just not sure if this is helping me.....maybe I am doing something wrong.....I am open to ideas.

As an easy example: consider these two lines from "One" by U2. For simplicity, I am expressing the song in the key of Am or C:

The first line (verse section, if you will) is pretty easy. I personally *feel* it as being in the key of Am [as presented], but some will argue that it is in the corresponding major key:

/ Am / Dm7 / F / G /

I would "harmonically analyze" this as being a i....iv....VI....VII in the key of Am.


The song later moves to the chorus, and the relative major chord -- in this case, the C -- is employed:

/ C / Am / F / G /

I would consider this to be a I....vi....IV....V in the key of C.

I am simply presenting my *homework* here -- please feel free to correct me if you see any errors. BUT MY QUESTION IS: How does this exercise of harmonic analysis *help* in the execution of the song? In particular, how does applying harmonic analysis help one memorize a song? This far in the song (pretty much the whole song, really) there are only five chords, but if I apply harmonic analysis, I find that I end up with eight Roman numeral chord designations.

This just seems to be adding complexity; I just don't see what I might be gaining in the context of playing the song in this case.

It feels particularly cumbersome for me to try to consciously *think* "minor one...minor four....major six....key of Am..." etc., as opposed to just memorizing the chords themselves.

I am just trying to wrap my brain around this a little better.....thanks for any useful thoughts.

[DungBeatle]

The Nashville system might be simpler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_number_system

I = 1
ii = 2
iii = 3
IV = 4

etc.
~Bob

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

It feels particularly cumbersome for me to try to consciously *think* "minor one...minor four....major six....key of Am..." etc., as opposed to just memorizing the chords themselves.

I am just trying to wrap my brain around this a little better.....thanks for any useful thoughts.

I'm thinking a lot about how to memorize songs better right now so I feel your pain.

I think there are some principles we can use to help us remember. One seems to be to find the fewest unconnected chunks of information possible to memorize.

I do think of the chords this way, but it sounds like you might be having to remember too many different things with it. (Sorry if I'm misreading you.)

I would think this is only useful if you already "know" certain things.

For example, it doesn't matter what key it's in when you are thinking of this. All minor keys will have the same pattern, i, iidim, III, iv, v... I already have that info firmly in my head, so I don't need to tell myself again for each song that i is a minor chord, iv is minor, etc.The numerals i, iv already carry that info. People using it, esp jazz players, may already know all of this stuff so it would be simpler for them.

Nashville may work because it's simpler to say or it may not because it doesn't carry enough info. Nashville isn't better for me just because it's different. I'd have to "translate." To take another step to change from the roman numerals I already use to Nashville. I think another principle is you want avoid "translating" as much as possible.

Another helpful principle is to use other kinds of memory as much as possible.

As for remembering if it's a D7 or D6 or whatever. I would probably be storing that info a different way, in my hands, so to speak, as I play, remembering it along with a lyric. All I really need as far as the chords is things that will jog my memory to get started the right way, after that muscle memory kicks in. For this, you'd have to already be able to play it. If it's new that wouldn't work.

I try all sorts of things. I'll be interested to see what others say.

[rick-slo]

I doubt memorizing Roman numerals (or some other chord notation) is going to help you memorize a song. It is just more stuff to memorize, plus many different songs use the same chords and chord sequences. Memorize the melody line. Repetition for muscle memory in fingerstyle type music.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I doubt memorizing Roman numerals (or some other chord notation) is going to help you memorize a song. It is just more stuff to memorize, plus many different songs use the same chords and chord sequences. Memorize the melody line. Repetition for muscle memory in fingerstyle type music.

Sorry if I got that wrong, OP, I assumed you wanted to play chords rather than melody.

I think, for me, that different songs having the same chords and chord progressions actually makes it easier. For example, I know that Who'll Stop the Rain has some of the same chord progressions as Puff the Magic Dragon, so I only have to memorize it once. If I do it with Roman numerals, I can even play them in different keys without more memorizing. I'm all about compensating for my poor memory.

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

Sorry if I got that wrong, OP, I assumed you wanted to play chords rather than melody.

Actually, it IS primarily the chords which I am seeking to memorize -- hence my reference to Harmonic Analysis.....so you were tracking along with my intended question (although perhaps I could have expressed myself better).

There are no wrong answers here -- just me -- asking for ideas from fellow players.

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

I think, for me, that different songs having the same chords and chord progressions actually makes it easier. For example, I know that Who'll Stop the Rain has some of the same chord progressions as Puff the Magic Dragon, so I only have to memorize it once. If I do it with Roman numerals, I can even play them in different keys without more memorizing. I'm all about compensating for my poor memory.

Good point; I have encountered that scenario as well (different songs, same basic chord progression).

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I doubt memorizing Roman numerals (or some other chord notation) is going to help you memorize a song. It is just more stuff to memorize, plus many different songs use the same chords and chord sequences. Memorize the melody line. Repetition for muscle memory in fingerstyle type music.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Rick. The *thing* that I find is that muscle memory -- for ME -- is not as reliable as I would want when actually performing, as everything *feels* different under the adrenaline of playing in front of people. If I can keep the chords right, I find the song carries along pretty well (usually). To put it another way, if I do use music sheets, it is usually just a chord outline -- the melody falls into place pretty naturally for me from there......but I sometimes forget the chords.....hence my query...

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by DungBeatle

The Nashville system might be simpler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_number_system

Thanks Bob. I'll check it out.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

I am just trying to wrap my brain around this a little better.....thanks for any useful thoughts.

What I memorise is the sound of the piece. From that I can extrapolate the chords. Not in a perfect pitch, absolute way, but in a relative to a moveable root way. The more complex a chord sequence, the more likely I am to fall down on detail, but I memorise sounds and work out stuff from that. I've been playing for a long time and most of the time I can hear chords pretty well.

[FwL]

Taking a look at the example you give, it strikes me as it would be easier to just see everything as it relates to the parent major scale.

vi ii IV V for the first part

I vi IV V for the second part


If you already know I IV and V are major chords and ii and vi are minor chords in a given key you don't have to add that information into your memorization. If you don't know this well enough to not have to think about it, then you need to work with harmonizing the major scale until you have it down.

Do you have to think about where your mouth is when you eat?

You need to know the chords of any given key just as well. You need to know the type of chord built from each scale degree as well as where these chords sit relative to one and another on the fingerboard. It's also helpful to know the most common extensions alterations and substitutions that songwriters use.


Once you have this stuff down, it's pretty simple to look at a song and realize it's just a I IV V in G or a I vi IV V in C or a series of ii V chords leading up to a key change etc...
.
.

[Wyllys]

Memorization is an interesting subject. People remember things in different ways. The method may differ, but TIME, REPETITION and FOCUS are the main elements.

Analyzation is just time and focus. Writing out a difficult melody has always worked for me...once I spent the years necessary to become proficient at notation. The time spent in focused activity is the key. Use whatever system makes sense to you. One may suit better than another, but it's basically:

Lather, rinse, repeat...

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by FwL

Taking a look at the example you give, it strikes me as it would be easier to just see everything as it relates to the parent major scale.

vi ii IV V for the first part

I vi IV V for the second part


If you already know I IV and V are major chords and ii and vi are minor chords in a given key you don't have to add that information into your memorization. If you don't know this well enough to not have to think about it, then you need to work with harmonizing the major scale until you have it down.

This. It's always worth looking at spelling for any minor in the context of relative major. "One" makes more sense in this context especially. The chorus is major. Great tune btw. Great changes.

I don't understand the notion of Nashville numbers being "overthinking" or something in some of these posts. They aren't called " modern jazz" numbers. They are Nashville numbers - as in simple country tunes and the way those players call them. It's a basic way of conveying harmony , without respect to key or specific pitches. Once you look at things that way, you see repeating patterns in all types of music which are pretty simple.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by mattbn73

I don't understand the notion of Nashville numbers being "overthinking" or something in some of these posts.

I like to say, "Thinking isn't overthinking."

I agree, nothing wrong with Nashville numbers, they are the same concept as Roman numerals. I like the Roman numerals better because AFAIK the Nashville numbers don't show which chords are major or minor and the Roman do.

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

BUT MY QUESTION IS: How does this exercise of harmonic analysis *help* in the execution of the song? In particular, how does applying harmonic analysis help one memorize a song? This far in the song (pretty much the whole song, really) there are only five chords, but if I apply harmonic analysis, I find that I end up with eight Roman numeral chord designations.

This just seems to be adding complexity; I just don't see what I might be gaining in the context of playing the song in this case.

It feels particularly cumbersome for me to try to consciously *think* "minor one...minor four....major six....key of Am..." etc., as opposed to just memorizing the chords themselves.

I am just trying to wrap my brain around this a little better.....thanks for any useful thoughts.

It's not necessarily about consciously thinking, at least not long-term. And it's not really about usefulness related to memorizing a SINGLE song either. It's more about having a way of relate it to other songs you might analyze (maybe in different keys) and have a context for later being able to hear them on the fly.

Play your I-vi-IV-V from "One" over a dozen other songs for five minutes and will begin to sound like "it's own thing" and is eventually easily heard in new songs as a single entity.

http://www.starlandguitar.com/1-6-4-...ion-song-list/

[LSemmens]

I'll qualify my statements first: I've never been able to "remember a song" - I always use a chart or follow another muso. That said, I've not made a real effort to memorise a song either.

I fail to comprehend how using Nashville numbering or any other numbering scheme is going to simplify things. To me it just introduces another layer of complexity. It may make it easier transposing on the fly, but you've still got to remember the intervals well enough to remember a fifth above Bb is F but, suddenly, transpose that to E and you've suddenly got to think on the fly. I'd rather just remember the progression and, if necessary, use a capo if I can't find a decent fit for the progression.

My thinking, though would be to actually "sing" the changes in place of the words.