Preamps

MattChen · #1 10-22-2010, 02:16 AM

So I thought my Saffire 6 from focusrite was a preamp. But apparently it's more of a interface "with built in pre's".
The mic I have now (SM7B) needs a lot of gain and I need to crank the gain on my saffire 6 to a full 10 and still sing directly into the mic inches away.

I am thinking of getting a another preamp to go through my recording chain but if it just adds volume than I'm not sure it's a worthy investment for me now. However, if it improves the actual sound, i.e. more warmth, depth, or whatever, then I'd be game.

Does it work this way? Do preamps change the sound? improve it?

Thanks.

I know I've been making a lot of posts lately. Have had a lot of time to record these days.

colinmac · #2 10-22-2010, 03:58 AM

I don't have any experience with Saffire products but I'd be surprised if the unit didn't offer enough gain to work with a SM7B.

How are you listening to the result? If you are making recordings on computer and finding them too quiet, check the record level settings on the computer itself. I don't use a USB audio route but rather a conventional analogue input to a soundcard and Windows (or maybe more accurately the soundcard driver) has a software level control on the line in. If that is set too low then I don't get much signal into the recording, even if I have a good strong signal coming from the mixer. I'd expect the computer to have something similar for a USB audio device.

To answer your question, however, a good preamp should only make the signal stronger and shouldn't change the tone at all. The edges of this are blurred, however, when you get into tube preamps which will intentionally add 'warmth' to the signal. If this is what you are after then you can search Google for tube preamps and find something that fits your budget. The options start with the likes of the Behringer Tube Ultragain Mic 100 and go all the way up to stuff that costs more than my Lowden did.

rhancox · #3 10-22-2010, 04:39 AM

What software are you using? Are you using Abelton Live, that came with the Saffire?

In the software, you can some gain to a track or you can just increase the master volume of the whole mix. I haven't used it that much so I don't remember exactly how in Abelton, but the options are available.

Your mic is a dynamic so phantom power does not need to be turned on. Also, make sure the "pad" button is not on, as this will knock the level down.

MattChen · #4 10-22-2010, 06:31 AM

I have to max out the gain and volume on the saffire. I looked online and this is common for this setup. Most people I talked to at the local music stores agree that the saffire will have difficulty getting much gain for the SM7B.

What do you mean the dynamic doesn't require phantom power? But I need to press the 48V button just to turn on the saffire and activate the mics right? Doesn't that automatically turn on phantom power?

MattChen · #5 10-22-2010, 06:33 AM

I'm using garageband by the way....

I don't get how they can charge a couple hundred dollars for something that gives the mic volume. Seems to me like if a mic doesn't have enough volume that's a freaking faulty product!
Well that's just my simplistic thought on that since I'm new to all this. But I just don't get it. How do they get away with charging half a grand for a fancy volume knob.

colinmac · #6 10-22-2010, 06:45 AM

Dynamic microphones don't need phantom power; condenser microphones do. The SM7B is a dynamic microphone so you can use it without turning on phantom power.

Regarding the need for a preamp, it's not a fault, it's just the way these things are. Microphones generate a very small electrical signal, in the region of 10 millivolts or so. Power amplifiers, among other things, operate at 'line level' which means signals in the region of 1 volt, i.e. 100 times higher than the microphone produces. The microphone therefore needs a preamp to multiply the voltage up to the required level.

The Saffire 6 is a recording interface. It takes the analogue signal from microphones, guitars, etc., and converts them to a USB signal that you can use for mixing, editing, etc. It incorporates preamps, but that's not the point of the device.

rhancox · #7 10-22-2010, 07:07 AM

When I record my guitar with my MXL mics, which are condenser mics, I typically set the gain to around 6 or 7, depending on how far away the guitar is from the mics. At this level, the "clip" indicator lights will just start to flicker at the volume I want to play at.

I never use the pad button, as that will decrease the level of the signal, requiring more gain. Do you make sure the pad button is off?

RRuskin · #8 10-22-2010, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattChen

So I thought my Saffire 6 from focusrite was a preamp. But apparently it's more of a interface "with built in pre's".
The mic I have now (SM7B) needs a lot of gain and I need to crank the gain on my saffire 6 to a full 10 and still sing directly into the mic inches away.

I am thinking of getting a another preamp to go through my recording chain but if it just adds volume than I'm not sure it's a worthy investment for me now. However, if it improves the actual sound, i.e. more warmth, depth, or whatever, then I'd be game.

Does it work this way? Do preamps change the sound? improve it?

Thanks.

I know I've been making a lot of posts lately. Have had a lot of time to record these days.

Your Saffire does have mic pres on board. Your SM7B is not a particularly sensitive mic to begin with and needs you to be close. It was designed that way. What level are you attempting to achieve anyway? You only need to get around -20 for a clean/usable signal. You're in the digital realm not analog where you need to overcome tape noise.

MattChen · #9 10-23-2010, 02:53 AM

i got a Golden age pre73.

Adds a cirspiness to the recording. and enough gain to hear myself to monitor.

RRuskin · #10 10-23-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattChen

i got a Golden age pre73.

Adds a cirspiness to the recording. and enough gain to hear myself to monitor.

Going from an outboard preamp into another one is not a good idea. You still haven't answered my question as to what level you are trying to achieve in the 1st place. Monitoring levels and record levels are 2 different issues. If you get a usable record level but can't monitor easily, your problem isn't with preamp gain. I get the feeling that you are new to all of this.

MattChen · #11 10-23-2010, 06:12 PM

yes, I'm very new to all this.

Could you explain why it isn't a good idea?

As far as "level", I don't know what you're talking about.

I AM new to all this and I simply would like the SM7B to have more gain overall. The fact that the Golden Age preamp ads a bit of a edge/vintage to the sound is also nice.

What is your recommendation?

RRuskin · #12 10-23-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattChen

yes, I'm very new to all this.

Could you explain why it isn't a good idea?

As far as "level", I don't know what you're talking about.

I AM new to all this and I simply would like the SM7B to have more gain overall. The fact that the Golden Age preamp ads a bit of a edge/vintage to the sound is also nice.

What is your recommendation?

More info needed. What are your meters telling you when you use the SM7? The meters are telling you what level you are recording at.

MattChen · #13 10-24-2010, 03:29 AM

sorry again you've lost me. "meters".

I did call a local music store after what you told me. Said that someone on the forums said my setup was a "bad idea". He said basically it was a bad idea cause I'm not connecting the two properly. I was connecting it so both preamps were in the equation. I needed to connect the two differently so that I am using the pre-73 as the preamp for gain and then the saffire 6 is bypassed (but still used as an audio converter).... need a trs to trs cable.

thanks for the heads up!

Ty Ford · #14 10-24-2010, 07:46 AM

"I don't get how they can charge a couple hundred dollars for something that gives the mic volume. Seems to me like if a mic doesn't have enough volume that's a freaking faulty product!"

Matt,

You're statement is very revealing. Consider stepping away from the computer and do some reading.

Unfortunately, the Microphone chapter I have edited and updated three times for the National ***'n of Broadcasters Engineering Guide is not available by itself. It would answer a lot of questions that haven't even occurred to you yet.

http://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Ha.../dp/0240807510

Find anything by Anything by Alton Everest.

Like this: http://www.amazon.com/Master-Handboo.../dp/0071360972

or this collection if info: http://www.shure.com/americas/suppor...ions/index.htm

or,

http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/publ...c_sound_ea.pdf

Regards,

Ty Ford

RRuskin · #15 10-24-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattChen

sorry again you've lost me. "meters".

I did call a local music store after what you told me. Said that someone on the forums said my setup was a "bad idea". He said basically it was a bad idea cause I'm not connecting the two properly. I was connecting it so both preamps were in the equation. I needed to connect the two differently so that I am using the pre-73 as the preamp for gain and then the saffire 6 is bypassed (but still used as an audio converter).... need a trs to trs cable.

thanks for the heads up!

Your recording program should have some visual means of telling you what's happening regarding the incoming signal. That's "metering." You don't have that? Barring equipment malfunction, I'm betting that your inexperience is the main problem here.