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  #16  
Old 10-21-2010, 04:23 PM
rpg51 rpg51 is offline
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I tried the whole computer thing - never could get good results. Bought a Tascam - that night I had 3 good multitrac recordings done. But now you can do all the Tascam does on your iPhone. Amazing world we live in.
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2010, 04:35 PM
colinmac colinmac is offline
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I tried the whole computer thing - never could get good results. Bought a Tascam - that night I had 3 good multitrac recordings done. But now you can do all the Tascam does on your iPhone. Amazing world we live in.
This really doesn't make sense. An iPhone is just a small computer built for a specific purpose, and so is a Tascam (or any other) digital multitracker.
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2010, 04:41 PM
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This really doesn't make sense. An iPhone is just a small computer built for a specific purpose, and so is a Tascam (or any other) digital multitracker.
The Tascam has a hard drive, and it has some computer controlled menu's and prompts, but it basically operates like the old 4 track cassette recorders.
The manual is only about 40 pages long, and 80% of that is only used if you want to start indexing, punching in and out etc. That's a far cry from what you have to learn to record with the software that came with the Lexicon unit I had.
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2010, 04:54 PM
tanglewoodtree tanglewoodtree is offline
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thanks for all these responses, and the links to recordings and hardware, mics etc.

i'm still feeling overwhelmed with choices, but i have a much better idea of what's available and what i'll need to get. when faced with lots of choices i sometimes freeze and do nothing. hopefully i'll just take a leap soon and get something.
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:44 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Do YOUR Homework, Tanglewoodtree

Aloha Tanglewoodtree,

It's really easy to get overwhelmed by the all the market approaches & choices when your recording knowledge is at beginner level. It's also very easy to spend lots of money unwisely.

Many here will throw equipment ideas at you. But from your questions, I can tell that what you really need is to take the time to fully understand the elements of recording signal chains, how they function alone & together, & how to apply them to your music - in your mind first - before you buy. The most valuable asset is information.

Hint: Guitar sites like this are not the best sources of info for the recording process for obvious reasons. Go to recording sites like Gearslutz, Home Recording, Gear Page, & check out pertinent publications: Audio Review, Mix, Sweetwater's free catalog, and recording books. Gearslutz is great for info & pro engineering responses. When you begin to home in on products, check out their user forums for the kinds of issues & assets the various ones provide.

The way around all that is to do some woodshedding with different recording resources & learn about: DIY ROOM TREATMENT (the primary investment, IMO), recording signal chains, interfaces, preamps, headphones, monitors, DAW's, small recorders, stand alone recording systems, miking patterns & techniques, creating a studio space out of nothing, tracking, mixing, editing & mastering - BEFORE YOU BUY. Those concepts are NOT generally broached at these guitar sites unfortunately.

Do the research first & then your questions will change. And better advice will result from people who know.

Do the research & you will save thousands & lots of time in the long run.

Do the research & you'll create the important reources & associations for yourself that will enable you to work through problems when they arise more patiently with positive results & empowerment.

I could tell you what to buy to start out. But that's not as important as YOU putting in the time gaining information at this point. Understand?

If you're REALLY dying to get into some kind of recording with you PC, then think about:

- one of the small recorders like the Zoom H4n
- one good vocal (large diaphragm condenser) like a CAD M179,
- one or a pair of S/D condensers for guitar (two are preferred for stereo) like the Oktava MK-012.

The H4n allows you to link up to your PC with software & share or burn your music right away.

Use a startup rig like that to get your feet wet while you're learning about recording. At least you'll be into some hands-on recording & will begin to learn how to create good recorded sound & also what the challenges are. If it were easy, more players would do it better. Understand?

The next step up is into DAW's. But

Do You Homework, Tangledwood&blue.

Good Luck!

alohachris

PS: I do practice what I preach. I read everything out there & tried out every DAW sample program I could find & all the parts of my signal chain for 4 years - before buying anything! IT really paid off!-alohachris-
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  #21  
Old 10-21-2010, 08:01 PM
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Do the research & you will save thousands & lots of time in the long run.

-
the OP is talking about a budget under 1k......
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2010, 09:59 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Yes Fitness & I'm

Aloha Fitness,

Yes Fitness. & I'm talking about Tanglewoodtree gaining knowledge through the proper resources before he buys anything.

It doesn't matter the cost! What matters is being able to use what he buys. And that takes knowledge of the recording process & available options, BEFORE HE BUYS.

From his questions, Fitness, the OP doesn't really have an idea of what he wants or needs at this stage. $1K was just thrown out. Why limit Tanglewood's thinking by using dollars as a yardstick - or in the case of this GD forum - being the "spending police?" How does that help the OP?

I made a suggestion for getting started but spoke more about knowledge & resources. He's going to need such a minimal rig anyway to mic a voice & guitar for decent stereo results. Just got him thinking about a few options to get started - off the top.

What, are you going to tell him to use an H-2, an MXL USB mic & some cheap headphones? Or use an iPhone w/ pods? Yeah, that'll inspire him to look beyond the stage he's currently at.

Just trying to help, as always. No limitations, Fitness. OK? Let the OP decide when he knows more about what he needs. Knowledge is what I'm talking about.

alohachris
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2010, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
What, are you going to tell him to use an H-2, an MXL USB mic & some cheap headphones? Or use an iPhone w/ pods? Yeah, that'll inspire him to look beyond the stage he's currently at.
If you'd read my post, you have seen that's not what I'd reccomended at all.
Not everyone can afford the high end stuff that you have or use, and I was just giving the OP what he was asking for. When you make statements like you did that folks on a guitar forum don't know anything about recording equipment, it kind of makes folks that have been at it for 35 years or more feel like you don't think they know enough to make a helpful suggestion.

In my opinion, the time he would spend researching these other forums could be spent getting going recording at the level he's wanting (ie, "don't want to make any CD's") And there are many here who have gone through exactly what he's going through that can offer great advice. I can't speak eloquently about Avalon pre's, Geffel mics or other pricey equipment, but I've been through enough equipment that most of us mere mortals use to give pretty good help.

Of course, that's only my opinion....and I'm just a guitar forum member.

Not trying to cause problems with you Chris.....but your post was a little "snarky" in saying the OP won't get any good advice here. Makes a lot of us feel like we are pretty useless because we don't have 20k in our recordign studio.
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  #24  
Old 10-22-2010, 05:20 AM
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I am at a similar point as "Tanglewoodtree" and so have been following this post with interest. My goal is to be able to record some good sound for solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar for YouTube - that's about it. Certainly there must be some consensus on how best to do this for under $1000.

Could anyone suggest some basic articles or refrences that might go over the basics of getting startedwith home recording. I have been doing research and it is indeed quite overwhelming. I have seen some trends and have seen some of the same products that come up with enough frequency that I gather they are good and reliable (Zoom H2 for example). But I am left with so many questions (would the Zoom H4 be better?). Also stuck in some very basic things - do I want to use 2 mics, a preamp, monitors or headphones and a PC for effects or............do I want to use my H2 plugged right in to the PC, or............do I want to use my magnetic P/U with an external mic, or...........Zoom A2.1u (which looks fantastic) or Paracoustic DI??

Or..........just spend my time doing what I enjoy - playing guitar and practicing and forget about spending any more percious time on all this. All very confusing at the beginning stages and not always clear on what is needed and why.

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  #25  
Old 10-22-2010, 05:47 AM
colinmac colinmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrown View Post
I am at a similar point as "Tanglewoodtree" and so have been following this post with interest. My goal is to be able to record some good sound for solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar for YouTube - that's about it. Certainly there must be some consensus on how best to do this for under $1000.
There's no consensus because 'best' is an individual decision, just like there's no consensus on the best guitar for under $1K.

For example, you can record sound and video on a Kodak Zi8 and for some people that's as good as they want, i.e. it qualifies as 'best' for their specific combination of quality requirements, budget, convenience, future needs and technical ability.

Some people will use an array of very high quality microphones linked to state-of-the-art preamps and record them on a 24 channel firewire interface for future mixing and editing. In the same way, this is their 'best' option because it ticks the boxes for their needs.

Ultimately the best thing is to understand the options available and decide what fits your needs.
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  #26  
Old 10-22-2010, 05:48 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
... Hint: Guitar sites like this are not the best sources of info for the recording process for obvious reasons.
You should list the "obvious" reasons to which you allude as they seem to be at odds with the presence of professional recording engineers among our membership (posting helpful, authoritative information) who, as guitarists, have a perspective, that other experts may not possess. Then there are the knowledgeable amateurs among us who have learned to produce good recordings of their own performances by extracting the most out of the modest equipment that a severely limited budget will muster.
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  #27  
Old 10-22-2010, 06:12 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Originally Posted by bbrown View Post
I have seen some trends and have seen some of the same products that come up with enough frequency that I gather they are good and reliable (Zoom H2 for example). But I am left with so many questions (would the Zoom H4 be better?).
The primary advantage of the H4 and H4n over the H2, from my perspective, is that the H4s provide the option of either using the built-in mics or using any external microphones. Many guitarists are quite satisfied with the results they get from the H2.

Quote:
Also stuck in some very basic things - do I want to use 2 mics, a preamp, monitors or headphones and a PC for effects or............do I want to use my H2 plugged right in to the PC, or............do I want to use my magnetic P/U with an external mic, or...........Zoom A2.1u (which looks fantastic) or Paracoustic DI??
The answers to your questions are, for the most part, really a matter of personal preference. However, recording by means of a guitar pickup will produce the worst quality recordings. For guitarists who don't want to invest a lot of time with the recording process, a Zoom H2 and the software, GarageBand, can produce fairly pleasing results.

Unfortunately, I can't refer you to any articles on the basics of home recordings but it is likely that some other member can. The information at the link below provides good information on microphones.

http://yourfriendpaul.com/MicPrime/M...onePrimer.html
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  #28  
Old 10-22-2010, 07:30 AM
rhancox rhancox is offline
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Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
... I read everything out there & tried out every DAW sample program I could find & all the parts of my signal chain for 4 years - before buying anything! IT really paid off!
While research is a good thing, I don't think the OP is wanting to spend the next 5 yrs figuring out how to record. Besides, technology is a moving target so the longer you wait, the more research you'll have to do as new innovations and products come to market.

It's like waiting for the price of something to come down before you buy. Theoretically, you'll never buy anything because the price will always be going down.
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2010, 08:25 AM
dwaisman dwaisman is offline
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It's very important to do the proper research and also ask around to knowledgeable people before committing to buy. But I agree with the post here, at the end it's a matter of personal experience and preference.
For a modest recording budget I would recommend any Recording interface that provides either a LE software license or a free software. That should be more than enough to get your feet wet. Also something that it's worth pointing out, is the type of Pre-amp on the interface. Your budget seems to be limited for a individual Pre-amp, so I might suggest use the one your interface has - That's why Its selection should be carefully researched.

All the best to you

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  #30  
Old 10-22-2010, 12:56 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Aloha,

Some points:

My posts to Tangelwoodtree here were ALL about getting useful some information & context for the recording process, and NOT about equipment at all.

My personal investment in my equipment has nothing - NOTHING - to do with my suggestions to this OP.

It IS true that guitar sites DO NOT provide in-depth, task-oriented, detailed advice for people who want to learn recording at ANY level. They are for players, not engineers. You have to admit there is not that much about the details of recording here, only the equipment. When was the last time we discussed mastering in any depth, for example? Mostly, we debate equipment.

There are great exceptions among our friends here, but for the most part that is true, IME. We CAN offer info about equipment - but not much about how to use it or how to experiment with it for the most part.

The purpose of my referring the OP to other recording sites & resources was to provide him with a broader pallette of info pertinent to the recording process - not the equipment - as he begins his journey. It WILL save him lots of time & money in the long-run & help him when he gets stuck.

The main "obvious" reason why guitarists & engineers provide different levels of info is that the process of recording - FOR MOST GUITAR PLAYERS - is distracting, time-consuming & counter-productive to the MUSIC creative process. Most players who peruse these sites simply don't have the money to pursue recording - or even do DIY room treatment. Players want to play. Engineers want to record. Two different processes & parts of the brain for two different types of people, IMO.

Most players - including me - cannot pull that off without help or at least some pro information. Therefore, more help & info about the process of recording of vocals & guitars most of us want to do can be found at other sites.

That's the obvious point. I mean, who you gonna listen to, alohachris, the gigger who has only been at DAW recording for a year, or George Massenburg et al over at Gearslutz forums?!?

It wasn't a slight on the folks - including me - who try to help here. It was a fact based on my experiences with responses to my questions about recording both here & at other guitar sites. I just want Tanglewoodtree to understand that his resrouces & options extend beyond this thread, and to pursue them.

More suggestions for Tanglewood might best serve this thread here. He will learn from all of it. We're all trying to help. I know you guys are.

alohachris

Last edited by alohachris; 10-22-2010 at 01:10 PM.
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