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  #46  
Old 03-24-2019, 05:58 PM
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AC!

Wow, very nice work and very nice reportage. The company should be paying you for your R&D. Good stuff,
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  #47  
Old 03-24-2019, 07:09 PM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Thanks AC. I appreciate that Gotoh Minis can be had in black but without the locking feature. I may seriously consider changing out the stock tuners (also just discovered that the G tuner on mine is broken during a string change).

These OF660s are charming little guitars with so many boxes checked for my tastes.

Another question though, am I seeing 2 different buttons on those Gotohs?
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  #48  
Old 03-25-2019, 01:53 AM
ac ac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelvibe View Post
Thanks AC. I appreciate that Gotoh Minis can be had in black but without the locking feature. I may seriously consider changing out the stock tuners (also just discovered that the G tuner on mine is broken during a string change).

These OF660s are charming little guitars with so many boxes checked for my tastes.

Another question though, am I seeing 2 different buttons on those Gotohs?
Yes, the picture showing the back of the headstock shows the button shape I preferred, round with a flat side, but I had a single defective button and so switched to the all oval buttons you see in the first photo.

They are ebony and not expensive (except for the shipping--robbery). They were from LMI (Luthiers Mercantile Int). The ebony is drilled out and a plastic or nylon insert is pressed into that with a hole that matches the Gotoh peg shape. But the insides of one of these buttons was a bit loose from the start and eventually, wouldn't grip the peg at all.

I tried all sorts of "clever" ways to make it function . . .tiny strips copper inserts, etc., all worked somewhat, but didn't feel right.

I didn't opt to try to get the bad button replaced for various reasons and because I had an older set of oval ebony buttons waiting for me in my drawer. So I just put those back on and I'm happy enough. They look almost the same.

BTW, all of the remaining ebony buttons have been fine and I expect them to remain fine. On 1:21 ratio, you really don't put that much pressure on the buttons to turn them.

BTW, the overall look of the OF660, to my eyes, is transformed with the Gotoh and ebony combination. It just makes the entire guitar suddenly look balanced rather than a guitar with an ultra tiny pin head. And there are no issues fitting in the travel case.

I don't know if these were Gotoh "minis" or just normal Gotoh--but they fit. Here is exactly what I got from the invoice:
SGL510Z H.A.P.M - L5 - B - L3+R3
As I said earlier, I would not opt for the adjustable post height, which is represented by one of the letters/numbers in the Gotoh code.

Someone once put together a partial list of the meaning for each part of the Gotoh code here:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...92&postcount=7

Last thing, I ordered my Gotoh from Scott Ando in Blaine Washington and it was a smooth purchase. ([email protected])
But I'm not sure he's in business anymore. There hasn't been a reference to him on the forum for many years.

Last edited by ac; 03-25-2019 at 02:20 AM.
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  #49  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:22 AM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Thanks again for the details! I was looking around for Gotohs last night and thought i would should be searching for minis. Now I can just search your code (i may have to break down and order some calipers as I've always wanted some around the house anyways) as im also considering just going for a black-out look. To get there I would need to swap the saddle, nut and tuners.

I also found some Grover Rotomatic minis in black which would be a direct swap. May go with that since they are $30-40 cheaper than the Gotohs and use the leftover change to get a black Graphtech nut and saddle.

Wonder if that would adversely affect tone though?
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  #50  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:10 AM
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I don't know how the Grover Rotomatic work, so can't comment.

Many years ago Emerald's stock tuner was a locking tuner by Spurzel. It had a spinning disc on the back used to somehow tighten on to the string. However, a couple times, I tightened too much and cut the string entirely off. Maybe they were defective tuners, maybe I just didn't understand what the right amount of twist to put on them. I always felt I was walking a tightrope.

For sure they were designed very differently than Gotoh. If I recall correctly, they seemed to clamp onto the string by pressing into or biting into the edge of the string to hold on to it instead of clamping flat against the string. Anyway, I was not happy with them as I always was nervous changing strings.

The Gotoh have a pin inside the post that slowly moves up and presses the string against a mostly flat surface inside the post. Once it is secure, the post then begins to to turn and string begins to wind. At that point, the string is really secure and there is nothing cutting into it.

I don't use wire cutters to trim off excess string with these tuners. I just spin the wire around for a few seconds and it breaks off exactly at the contact point slightly inside the post. No sharp anything to catch on things or scratch fingers. It is super clean looking and feeling.

Tuners are the only mechanical thing on a guitar that is used on a very regular basis. For that reason, I really wanted tuners that were a joy to use since I tend to tweak tuners whether or not it's needed--just to be sure. There has been no disappointment with my Gotohs. I paid a bit more--but each time I use them is a joy.

But if you have experience with the Grovers already and like their mechanism and love their feel, or maybe--just consider them all you need--then for sure, that's the way to go and save some money for other accessories.
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  #51  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:25 AM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Thanks AC.

I'm not interested in locking tuners and Grover makes them too. I also don't cut the strings with wire cutters but use the Doyle Dykes method and have been since I discovered his youtube video doing it. It works great and no blood thirsty pokie string end to get stabbed witth.

I like the look of the Gotohs over Grovers (and the preciseness) but not the price. Grover Rotomatic Minis are stock on the Journey so i have about 7 months getting to know them. They are far better on the OF660 than I expected and suit the tiny headstock.

Having said that, I absolutely love the look you achieved on yours with the Gotohs.
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  #52  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:53 AM
ac ac is offline
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Understand now. I thought you were going to use the Gotoh code I listed to look for the same--thus thinking you were looking for locking tuners. Sorry.
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  #53  
Old 03-25-2019, 01:59 PM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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Default SGL or SGS?

I checked the Goto website; SGS is a smaller version of SGL, though they look about the same sizewise but lighter. B5 and BL5 are codes for the black knobs you could choose from many others. I am guessing SGS510Z B5 is the right code. Not sure though. The black looks nice!

Last edited by Gitaman; 03-25-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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  #54  
Old 03-26-2019, 02:08 AM
ac ac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitaman View Post
I checked the Goto website; SGS is a smaller version of SGL, though they look about the same sizewise but lighter. B5 and BL5 are codes for the black knobs you could choose from many others. I am guessing SGS510Z B5 is the right code. Not sure though. The black looks nice!
I know that the version of Gotoh I bought directly swaps into the Journey, no additional drilling/filling needed.

If the SGS is designed to match the SGL in terms of where their screw holes are located, it also should be a direct swap. But if not, some extra work will be required.

I always would like smaller and lighter as well. If you do go with SGS, I'd love to know if it is a direct swap--also if that version has 1:21 available.
------
Oooops. Just checked the Gotoh site. I think I understand that the SGS is designating their 1:18 version. It's less than 2gm difference in weight. SGS is only 1:18. SGL is only 1:21.

That means if the body is the same, the swap will work.

After I bought mine some years ago, I'd forgotten everything about their code system.

Last edited by ac; 03-26-2019 at 02:18 AM.
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  #55  
Old 03-27-2019, 05:17 PM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac View Post
I know that the version of Gotoh I bought directly swaps into the Journey, no additional drilling/filling needed.

If the SGS is designed to match the SGL in terms of where their screw holes are located, it also should be a direct swap. But if not, some extra work will be required.

I always would like smaller and lighter as well. If you do go with SGS, I'd love to know if it is a direct swap--also if that version has 1:21 available.
------
Oooops. Just checked the Gotoh site. I think I understand that the SGS is designating their 1:18 version. It's less than 2gm difference in weight. SGS is only 1:18. SGL is only 1:21.

That means if the body is the same, the swap will work.

After I bought mine some years ago, I'd forgotten everything about their code system.

Their antic NickelX version looks like a match for the OF660 frets.

Last edited by Gitaman; 03-28-2019 at 01:34 AM.
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