Thoughts On The LR Baggs HiFi's Tone

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

Thanks, Spruce Top. Your comment on K&Ks in $4000+ guitar is spot on. Some people just want to hear sound when they plug in. It mystifies me, but they aren't out hurting babies either. This was a primary reason I had SunnAudio build me their blender in a box for a local open mic. I was tired of hearing K&Ks with no pre plugged into the mixer. Now we give them no choice. The SunnAudio makes anything sound better, and now the Collings guitars don't sound harsh. I always thought players were the only ones obsessing over their tone, but I've come to realize 75% don't really care. The players that do buy gear for themselves because they want to sound good. We all know a casual audience won't care. Until you pay $50 to see someone, then it starts to matter.

I think there’s a point where you have to realize it’s all subjective. There’s nothing wrong with a K&K pickup. There’s also nothing wrong with putting it in an expensive guitar because it can and often does sound awesome. Making the argument that people use it because they just want a way to create more volume is a bit much. I could sit here and list the number of high end players using a K&K pickup but I don’t think that will change your mind much. I think what it does say is that it’s subjective and as much as you hate it, there’s probably someone out there who hates the Dazzo just as much. I would also make the argument that putting a Dazzo into an expensive guitars is even scarier as it’s kind of a crap shoot.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I would also make the argument that putting a Dazzo into an expensive guitars is even scarier as it’s kind of a crap shoot.

Scott, I guess it's subjective but IMHO, after installing two Dazzo #70 systems in two Larrivee dreadnoughts, installing a Dazzo system isn't really a crap shoot as the amplified tone in both my installations sounded really good from the get-go. This was without using Teddy Randazzo's method of moving around the transducers while plugged into an amp to hear the varying results. I just installed them between the 6th and 5th strings and the 1st and 2nd strings and all was well. Perhaps some other players installing a Dazzo system would feel differently about its tone? Don't know, maybe. This addresses your crapshoot concern as a player would have to install a Dazzo system or any other brand of system to actually evaluate what the amplified tone can do for them.

[martingitdave]

I purchased and installed a HiFi system in the Furch Vintage 2 dreadnought that I purchased in Buffalo during a trip. The pickup sounded good... for a day. I have no idea what happened but it died in less than 24 hours. This was at the same time I was dealing with the Yamaha FGX5. I figured I'd have the HiFi to fall back on. After it stopped working, and I tried everything I know how to do, I just removed it and left it on the bench. I haven't dealt with it. I need to either return it to Sweetwater or call LR Baggs. But, since I had a gig, I just installed the K&K in the guitar. Those never fail me.

[Marty C]

Sorry to hear that. Caleb Elling at LR Baggs is always very helpful and responsive. [email protected].

[Br1ck]

My only experience with K&K pickups is that I bought my D 35 from Bryan Kinsey, so they were installed correctly. After so many years not having to mess with EQ, I could not bear to put up with needing to adjust EQ in at least three frequencies. After I had Dazzos put in, I was happy. If you can put up with the EQ situation, K&Ks can sound fine. I don't want to. And there are in my experience, many casual players with very nice guitars who put K&Ks into them a plug in with no thought to impedance and seem fine with what comes out of the PA speakers, witch is less than pleasant. In truth, and it is truth, most in the audience don't know or care.

I guess it is more their use than the pickups themselves that bothers me, and yes, I know one guy who swears by K&Ks that has tried Dazzos, but did not, I believe, take Teddy up on his offer to swap them out. I have no problem at all with someone liking a particular product and using it again and again. I only have my experience to go by. I lost all interest in experimenting, rightly or wrongly, with something new when I've been happy. It's like a Blackface Super Reverb, or a telecaster. I know I'll like them, a lot.

I'd be foolish to think probably the biggest selling pickup has no merit.

[SpruceTop]

I now hear my LR Baggs HiFi/Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special combo as sounding really good with a neck-relief adjustment of about .008" inches neck relief. So, I know many of you like a neck-relief of a ruler-flat .000" inches neck relief? My questions are: Do you use a feather for a flat pick? If you fingerpick (fingerstyle), do you breathe on the strings? Really, folks, IMHO, if you don't have some neck relief, adjusted to your mode of playing, then your tone will suffer whether playing acoustically or amplified.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I now hear my LR Baggs HiFi/Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special combo as now sounding really good with a neck-relief adjustment of about .008" inches neck relief. So, I know many of you like a neck-relief of a ruler-flat .000" inches neck relief? My questions are: Do you use a feather for a flat pick? If you fingerpick (fingerstyle), do you breathe on the strings? Really, folks, IMHO, if you don't have some neck relief, adjusted to your mode of playing, then your tone will suffer whether playing acoustically or amplified.

Hey Ken, you nailed it (IMO)! I always have slight relieve in my necks as you described. Being able to play into the guitar between light and medium attack lets me express myself musically.

[fwphoto]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

My only experience with K&K pickups is that I bought my D 35 from Bryan Kinsey, so they were installed correctly. After so many years not having to mess with EQ, I could not bear to put up with needing to adjust EQ in at least three frequencies. After I had Dazzos put in, I was happy. If you can put up with the EQ situation, K&Ks can sound fine. I don't want to.

I'm with you on this, for sure. When I was only messing around playing amplified the K&K was fine - with a ton of EQ! Even after I started plugging into the buffered PolyTune3 for proper impedance matching there was still a good bit of EQing to get decent sound quality. I started looking seriously for an alternative when I started playing out again, this time with a large, loud band. No amount of EQ was going to give me good sound quality - especially without a soundhole cover to get rid of the feedback. I read a lot about the Ultra Tonic before I first tried the K&K conversion model on my OM-21. Bingo! Great tone without rigorous EQ adjustment & total elimination of feedback without the buster! Goodbye K&K. When my D-18 went out to Bryan K. in New Mexico I had him take out the K&K & install the OEM Ultra Tonic & I've not had a single issue since. That's not to say others haven't found their own version of this story with other pickups they now prefer over the K&K, they have. I have left my "fooling' around tryin' to get better amplified sound in my acoustic guitars" days behind & am enjoying playing out without hassle instead.

Frank

[jonfields45]

IMO, a K&K plus an IR is a great solution. An inexpensive 1024 sample IR loader intended for electric guitar cabinet emulation is all you need for a great tone (not audiophile, but all the EQ issues and quack vanquished). I'd be happy to generate IRs or coach anyone through using my code directly (Seamus/Shufflebeat is my latest convert to making his own IRs with my code). I fixed his problems sitting in a restaurant answering a few emails with my iPhone.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I now hear my LR Baggs HiFi/Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special combo as sounding really good with a neck-relief adjustment of about .008" inches neck relief. So, I know many of you like a neck-relief of a ruler-flat .000" inches neck relief? My questions are: Do you use a feather for a flat pick? If you fingerpick (fingerstyle), do you breathe on the strings? Really, folks, IMHO, if you don't have some neck relief, adjusted to your mode of playing, then your tone will suffer whether playing acoustically or amplified.

Ken,

I need at least .007" to .01" at the 7th fret for relief. Like Gary above, I need the relief for dynamics and prevent buzz. As far as the HiFi goes, my brief experience suggests it's a "good" pickup, but maybe not in the same league as others you've demo'd, or some passive options with high quality external preamps.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

IMO, a K&K plus an IR is a great solution. An inexpensive 1024 sample IR loader intended for electric guitar cabinet emulation is all you need for a great tone (not audiophile, but all the EQ issues and quack vanquished). I'd be happy to generate IRs or coach anyone through using my code directly (Seamus/Shufflebeat is my latest convert to making his own IRs with my code). I fixed his problems sitting in a restaurant answering a few emails with my iPhone.

I agree. I think it can sound nice with a good analog preamp and perhaps better with some IR. I don't think you even need that much IR in the blended signal to make it sound "presentable."

[jonfields45]

https://youtu.be/zaWjhFu5Uk4



Through headphones, or speakers, the HiFi is quite impressive and at least for this example, the Anthem is not close.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

https://youtu.be/zaWjhFu5Uk4



Through headphones, or speakers, the HiFi is quite impressive and at least for this example, the Anthem is not close.

I agree Jon. To my ears, the HiFi sounds real nice in this example. The K&K sounded good as well albeit a little muddy. The Anthem SL had more of the Element piezo coming through.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

https://youtu.be/zaWjhFu5Uk4



Through headphones, or speakers, the HiFi is quite impressive and at least for this example, the Anthem is not close.

My issue with this demo is that there's clearly unplugged tone making it to the mics. Still, it does showcase the pros and cons of each pickup. To me, the HiFi always sounds super bright. They mention that the tone wheel is in the center so that makes me even more worried. With that said, I feel like I would start by rolling the tone wheel down for a warmer tone and then use external eq to fix the tone. I find from demos that the higher the HiFi tone wheel is set, the more high end comes through at the expense of warmth and bass.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

My issue with this demo is that there's clearly unplugged tone making it to the mics.

They claim there is no mic in the A vs. B vs. C at the end of the video.