Bass string resonation....

[Victorthesecond]

HI guys, wonder if I might grab some advice? My latest venture is as part of a small band playing acoustic covers (we have rhythm player with 12 string acoustic / 5 string electric bass / vocalist / cajon player (no drums). As the lead player, there is lots of picking which I love plus some solo work. I use an ageing, but good, Takamine G Series.

I've been doing this straight to my Marshal Soloist AS80R amp which is pretty old now, but still sounds great. Thought I'd try some pedals, so picked up a Zoom A3 modeller and added a Morley Gator volume pedal, an Electro-Harmonix looper and a Joy tremolo. None of these are expensive pedals, but give me chance to try a few discrete effects. The order (ie guitar in / amp out) is: A3 - Morley - tremolo - looper. It sounds OK, no hiss or other noise coming through the amp. The volume pedal is there to let the solos cut through. It allows me to set a minimum volume, so after boosting it and going back to picking, it sets the volume as it was before. I understand that the way to do this is to set the gain high on my guitar so the "lower" volume setting can still be heard.

But, that also means that, when I boost the volume, I get unwanted resonance from the bass strings (D,A,E), so if I do some solo stuff that includes those strings, then they keep ringing and, if left, create feedback. The A3 unit has a "feedback destroyer" which works to a point, but doesn't stop the resonance.

I could try palm muting the lower string, but that's not what I'd really like to do.

Any ideas? The other guitarist suggests a compression pedal but I think that would deaden the sound overall and not necessarily help here?

Thanks in advance of any suggestions!!!

Mike

[FrankHudson]

I'm not on your stage, so I can't really troubleshoot this.

I'd work on your guitar's location related to the amp first.

Electronic feedback eliminators do help, but some do need to be taught the frequencies to duck.

A compressor is not likely to help. I suppose you could set one up as a limiter to duck howling feedback to prevent painful levels, but at that point you still have the howling, just not as loud a peak.

Something cheap, that may help, would be a "feedback buster" soundhole plug.

[Marty C]

well you might try to use one of the compressors in the A3 - just to see if they worked for your issue. Or maybe try the internal para eq or the graphic eq to roll off some of the bass (sort of like a high pass filter) to see if that helps. The high gain setting you mentioned might contribute to this also.

[Pnewsom]

You had it right in the first place...palm muting. It's not easy at first, but becomes second nature after awhile. Good for lots more than just controlling resonate feedback.
Also, try to avoid having the amp blasting right at the body of the guitar.

[AcouStickistNS]

I went through something similar earlier this year using a Fishman Loudbox 100.
The feedback control was useless on a large stage. I had just acquired a new guitar and was a bit too eager to use it live. Many variables to deal with:

1. Too little amp. Used too much gain. Needed to increase the master and back off the gain channel. Nowadays I have louder amplification to avoid over-using the gain control to boost volume.

2. Too much gain on the guitar. I later adjusted this better at home.

3. Too much bass guitar. I was seated in front of the bass player’s amp. My whole guitar was shaking, and when playing similar notes the resonance would get even worse. If possible, get out of the direct path of the basss player’s amp. I’ve had a few other instances where I’ve asked the bass player to cut back a bit not so much on the volume, but reduce some of the boom coming out of his amp. No issues when playing an electric hardbody guitar, but with an acoustic funny things start happening if the bass player over boosts his lower frequencies.

I used to own a Zoom A3, but recently discovered via another forum member here that my Line 6 Helix can do better. I created a six band feedback control using two three band parametric eq’s. Hopefully I’ll never neeed it, but I tested it by creating feedback by turning up the gain controls in the effect. If I’m not mistaken, the A3 also has the parametric eq it’s other effects pedal has. So if the dedicated control fails, try the parametric eq and test by creating the feedback condition.

[varmonter]

So the guitar is a hollow box. This fact starts the
Loop of feed back. All advice given here so far is great.
If you don't have a soundhole pickup I would
Go the black rubber soundhole plug route first.
They really work well. Those lower strings are a bear
to control. You can eq that out but you sacrifice
some tone . Try to get away from the bass player
If possible. The combo of his amp vibrating your guitar
and your volume level is setting up the loop.
The difficult group discussion about stage levels
could come next. Always a touchy subject. Sometimes
It becomes a battle during the gig to hear. So you
Turn up.. then the next guy does the same to compensate.
And so on.. and so on.. if you think this is the case ,simply
Stating the issue may be enough.

[jseth]

To be clear: Get aa far away from the bassist's amplifier as possible; at the least, position yourself so that the body of your guitar is not directly in the "line of fire" of his amp. Same thing goes for your monitors, if you're using them.

Palm muting is simply what's needed here... doesn't matter if you don't like to do it - whenever you are in a ensemble that is amplified and you are playing an acoustic guitar, the body of your guitar is going to pick up EVERY sound that's amplified, usually to ill effect. You could try using noisegates and feedback eq, but even then, you're gonna have to deal with it.

You can try one of those soundhole gizmos - I don't use them nor like them much - but I really think it is a question of positioning on stage and your technique...

[Victorthesecond]

Much appreciated guys, thanks for all the comments. I suspected palm muting would be the answer!! I'll work on it.....

[varmonter]

It may work for you., but palm muting to
Solve feedback issues is a bandaid. And
It will affect your playing style in a bad way.
As an effect on attack it works great and
It can be tasty in the right places.
But to have to constantly palm your strings
to keep your guitar from howling.. gets a little
Old in a short amount of time ..imho
Try to work on eliminating the feedback issues before
you restrict your style.
If you find you still have to palm mute your guitar
to do this... your stage level is just too high.... Consider a tele..

[Johnny.guitar]

I have the same issue when I solo over another guitar.
One thing that would work for when you need a solo boost is to use a quality graphic eq pedal and pull some of the lower frequencies out(which will help you "cut" through the mix) and help with the feedback. So cut the low end a bit and then boost the whole signal.
Also you will have to palm mute as well at times.