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  #31  
Old 02-11-2016, 06:39 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Originally Posted by RayCJ View Post
It's very nice to see when theories are proven with proper scientific tests. For decades, we've all known that time and the 3 physical dimensions we are so familiar with, take on different forms. In simple terms, time and space (as we know it) becomes very different when objects move very, very fast. Our linear way of thinking and perceiving no longer applies in that realm. And as someone here pointed out, if we didn't take this into consideration, our GPS units would be off by a good 10 or 15%!

The fact that time & space get compressed as gravity waves travel through it, furthers the possibility of traveling near, at or beyond the speed of light. Traveling at the speed of light would not be much fun and is theoretically impossible for an object with mass. There is no speed limit imposed on the expansion (or manipulation) of time and space themselves. As such, gravitational waves opens the door to changing time/dimensions around an object without moving the object itself (thus no mass equivalency laws are violated). This will also help explain strange quantum effects -some of which have been mathematically modeled -but nobody has a clue how or why it actually works (i.e. quantum slit wave experiment and quantum entanglement).

When a theory like this is proven, it gives the theoretical physicists piece of mind that they're not barking up the wrong tree. On a more practical note, a most probable and immediate outcome of this will likely take place in semi-conductor technology.


Ray
I like your enthusiasm, but how would this explain quantum phenomenon?
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  #32  
Old 02-11-2016, 07:01 PM
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I like your enthusiasm, but how would this explain quantum phenomenon?

Proof of existence of gravitational waves does not immediately explain strange quantum effects and on that, I will admit bad wording. It may however give insight about why quantum effects behave the way they do. Light waves "clump-up" in ways predictable by a probability wave function and the photons seem to travel/distribute in ways outside the norms of mechanical explanation, with many past theories considering a distortion of space/time the culprit. Einsteins "Spooky Action" (quantum entanglement) implies instantaneous signaling between remote entities (whereby instantaneous is faster than the speed of light). Current theories about super-luminal travel (and/or signaling) evolve around the manipulation of space time. Experimentation and understanding of gravitational waves takes the theoretical physicists closer to understanding.

Ray

Last edited by RayCJ; 02-11-2016 at 07:17 PM. Reason: added qualifier to definition of travel
  #33  
Old 02-11-2016, 07:12 PM
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Proof of existence of gravitational waves does not immediately explain strange quantum effects and on that, I will admit bad wording. It may however give insight about why quantum effects behave the way they do. Light waves "clump-up" in ways predictable by a probability wave function and the photons seem to travel/distribute in ways outside the norms of mechanical explanation, with many past theories considering a distortion of space/time the culprit. Einsteins "Spooky Action" (quantum entanglement) implies instantaneous signaling between remote entities (whereby instantaneous is faster than the speed of light). Current theories about super-luminal travel evolve around the manipulation of space time. Experimentation and understanding of gravitational waves takes the theoretical physicists closer to understanding.

Ray
I agree with the basic principle, but it'll be a long time before this makes its way into quantum mechanics. Action at a distance involves transmission of essentially information faster than light which is allowed by physics.

Immediately, if the sensitivity is further improved, it will allow scientists to test GR in the most extreme environment, in black holes, which give us better understanding of spacetimes.
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  #34  
Old 02-11-2016, 08:09 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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On the one hand, I find stuff like this to be absolutely fascinating. On the other? Utterly useless. It's cool that they've detected something that's been long theorized, but is there any practical application for this new knowledge?

One of those interesting dichotomies of life, I guess!
With due respect, I need to comment on this, the idea that core science does not advance our quality of life. Here is one example, I can think of many.

Scientists were looking at the biology of insulin and its role in the brain. Out of curiosity they exposed mice who have a gene to develop Alzheimer's to insulin to see what happened. It turned out that mice exposed to insulin had a complete reversal of Alzheimers! They next created an insulin nasal spray and gave it to a few patients with Alzheimers. Guess what? Most improved, not all, but most. And those who did, could think and remember again and got their life back. All of this from fooling around seeing what effect insulin has on mouse brains.

So the core science of today becomes tomorrow's miracle. Gravitational wave studies connect electromagnetism and gravity, two complete unconnected fields of physics. Nothing is faster than the speed of light, but gravity is instant, and hence breaks that first rule! We have no idea where this will lead. The majority of scientific breakthroughs are not planned research but accidents.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:11 PM
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With due respect, I need to comment on this, the idea that core science does not advance our quality of life. Here is one example, I can think of many.

Scientists were looking at the biology of insulin and its role in the brain. Out of curiosity they exposed mice who have a gene to develop Alzheimer's to insulin to see what happened. It turned out that mice exposed to insulin had a complete reversal of Alzheimers! They next created an insulin nasal spray and gave it to a few patients with Alzheimers. Guess what? Most improved, not all, but most. And those who did, could think and remember again and got their life back. All of this from fooling around seeing what effect insulin has on mouse brains.

So the core science of today becomes tomorrow's miracle. Gravitational wave studies connect electromagnetism and gravity, two complete unconnected fields of physics. Nothing is faster than the speed of light, but gravity is instant, and hence breaks that first rule! We have no idea where this will lead. The majority of scientific breakthroughs are not planned research but accidents.
Gravity is not instant though. That's the whole point of gravitational waves. They travel at the speed of light.
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  #36  
Old 02-11-2016, 08:24 PM
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It is not possible to send information faster than light. There are entangled particles though, which if you observe one, you will know the state of the other, but there is no way to use that as a way to send information.

It's like if you have a dice, and for every value, you will know the value of another dice. It might seemingly violate the limitations of the speed of light, but it does not. You can't control the roll of your dice.

Quantum entanglement is not fully understood, but it does not violate the laws of physics. Nothing is traveling faster than light.

Saying something is traveling faster than light, is like saying it arrives before it left. The speed of light is in a sense instantaneous. It's odd to think about, but the speed of light is like the speed of instantaneous.

Gravity also travels at the speed of light.

If you could travel to a place at the speed of light, you would have aged zero milliseconds. If you traveled faster than that, you would have to be able to age negative time which doesn't make any sense. Light does not age. It arrives the instant it leaves.

This does not explain quantum entanglement, yet. Who knows? Maybe the sorts of instruments created with similar technology might make observations that let us understand the universe in such a way that entanglement makes simple sense without violating the speed of light.

Last edited by Monk of Funk; 02-11-2016 at 08:30 PM.
  #38  
Old 02-11-2016, 10:13 PM
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Will this research give us the flying cars we were promised?
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  #39  
Old 02-11-2016, 10:53 PM
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Albert was one VERY bright boy. At least 100 years ahead of his peers. It took that long to develop the technology to find out that he was right all along.
  #40  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:02 PM
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Albert was one VERY bright boy. At least 100 years ahead of his peers. It took that long to develop the technology to find out that he was right all along.
Einstein himself thought they were too weak to detect.
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  #41  
Old 02-12-2016, 12:36 AM
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Einstein himself thought they were too weak to detect.
True, but Einstein had no knowledge of lasers, or computers, or the ability to create subarcsecond mirrors. All of which were needed to detect these waves. The bottom line is that they did NOT have the ability to detect these 15 years ago, never mind 100 years ago.
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  #42  
Old 02-12-2016, 07:21 AM
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True, but Einstein had no knowledge of lasers, or computers, or the ability to create subarcsecond mirrors. All of which were needed to detect these waves. The bottom line is that they did NOT have the ability to detect these 15 years ago, never mind 100 years ago.
Yes, I agree. I don't believe subarcsecond mirrors are needed though. It's a large interferometer.
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  #43  
Old 02-12-2016, 08:15 AM
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Default The nature of reality

Here are two links - the Caltech press release and a video explanation - which clearly explain the findings:
https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/news/ligo20160211
http://mediaassets.caltech.edu/gwave

In the second link, the video includes a representation of the laser beam splitting, suspended mirror, laser interferometer apparatus, that observes the gravitational waves directly. The presenter uses visual aids to help the viewer understand how events originating over a billion years ago in magnitudes of roughly 10 to the minus 19th power are measured.

Sometimes you have to look at things differently to understand them.

Matter is not the ultimate reality.

As scientists probe more deeply, substance shifts from energy to Mind. Ann Beals wrote an interesting book titled the Myth of Matter.

Quantum entanglement illustrates the unity of All. It is my layman's personal opinion, based on my own 50 years exploration, that the instantaneous link between particles can only be explained by recognizing that while the particles appear to be separate to us, in reality they are not.

Gravitational waves are yet another illustration that matter is not the substantial reality it appears to be. Substance is found in the ineffable Allness that comprises reality.

Meditation (simply the stilling of incessant thought activity) is actually helpful in understanding life more deeply, for while thought reasons from the known to the known direct perception opens insight.
~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
Just finished reading the article and watching the video linked above, when I found this 3 page post on gravity waves here - very cool.
~~~~~~~~~
and now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
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  #44  
Old 02-12-2016, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Arthur Blake View Post
Here are two links - the Caltech press release and a video explanation - which clearly explain the findings:
https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/news/ligo20160211
http://mediaassets.caltech.edu/gwave

In the second link, the video includes a representation of the laser beam splitting, suspended mirror, laser interferometer apparatus, that observes the gravitational waves directly. The presenter uses visual aids to help the viewer understand how events originating over a billion years ago in magnitudes of roughly 10 to the minus 19th power are measured.

Sometimes you have to look at things differently to understand them.

Matter is not the ultimate reality.

As scientists probe more deeply, substance shifts from energy to Mind. Ann Beals wrote an interesting book titled the Myth of Matter.

Quantum entanglement illustrates the unity of All. It is my layman's personal opinion, based on my own 50 years exploration, that the instantaneous link between particles can only be explained by recognizing that while the particles appear to be separate to us, in reality they are not.

Gravitational waves are yet another illustration that matter is not the substantial reality it appears to be. Substance is found in the ineffable Allness that comprises reality.

Meditation (simply the stilling of incessant thought activity) is actually helpful in understanding life more deeply, for while thought reasons from the known to the known direct perception opens insight.
~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
Just finished reading the article and watching the video linked above, when I found this 3 page post on gravity waves here - very cool.
~~~~~~~~~
and now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
I'll stick with Science.........
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  #45  
Old 02-12-2016, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by HDRider View Post
On the one hand, I find stuff like this to be absolutely fascinating. On the other? Utterly useless. It's cool that they've detected something that's been long theorized, but is there any practical application for this new knowledge?

One of those interesting dichotomies of life, I guess!
Yes the dichotomy of some who's vision goes beyond the limit of ones arm length, and understand that expanding knowledge is the ultimate in practicality. And some who's vision and understanding ends at arms length.

From the practical standpoint of means of travel understanding Newtons theory of gravity eventually led to Kittyhawk
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