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Old 02-15-2015, 03:03 PM
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Default Amphion monitors

So after 2 years of researching what I was looking to be an upgrade from my original KRK V8's that I purchased in 2003 , to what I am anticipating as being my final monitor purchase for my home studio.

I have settled on Amphion One 18's powered by an Amphion Amp 100 class D amplifier.

Amphion is a relatively new (1998) small company in Finland producing what has become in the hi fi audiophile world, one of the best kept secretes of performance/cost value, a very accurate, detailed, well balanced speaker, with excellent stereo field and depth of field placement detail. (in other words the attributes sought for studio monitoring)

Amphion speakers are all passive requiring an outboard amplifier.

The professional monitoring line of Amphion consists of 5 models all two way designs all with one tweeter (waveguide technology) and either one or two mid-bass drivers per cabinet with One and Two indicating the number of mid-bass drivers.
Starting with the... One 12 , One 15, One 18 , Two 15, Two 18.

The One 12's are $750 each and the current top of line the Two 18's are $3000 each.
Home page for the studio line is :http://www.amphion.fi/en/create/


First impressions
So I am currently listening to some CDs favorites and including the same CDs that were required in the "Critical Listening" class I took a Berklee

So listening to things ranging from Peter Gabriel, Black Eyed Peas, Sting, Tom Petty,Cannonball Adderley with Bill Evens (sax & piano Jazz) to the Celtic Tides compilation to John Gorka

The first thing I noticed was how massive a sound stage these relatively small speakers produce ( 15" H, 7.5" W, 12" D )
The sound seems to come from beyond the speakers themselves both side to side and front and back. At the risk of gushing cliche' hype, very much like being in the in the room .

In comparison the The V'8 very much like lifting an intervening blanket out of the way. All of sudden little background sounds previously unnoticed are there and identifiable as being in the background space. with the prominent musical elements more out front.

Another thing I noticed is how the balance stays the same from low listening to loud.

At first I thought that perhaps the bass was a bit lacking, but soon realized that it's all there and more. It is simply tighter with none of that lingering secondary mush that often makes the bass seem louder (perhaps this is a function of the Amphions being a passive radiator cabinet as opposed to a ported )

Another thing that becomes apparent is how accurately you hear what's going one with the reverb and delay etc. And the cymbal hits accurate even the tinniest and there and detailed without harshness.

I will start mixing next week and post some more.
I was told by the guys at the shop that another thing they were really impressed besides the sound with was how well mix translates to other listening sources ( out in the car CD player etc) basically what you hear at the mixing desk is what hear out in the car (balance and detail wise)

Also It is said that these speakers get better when burned in for 40 hours or so. Hard to believe they can get much better

So here they are set up in my studio with amp in the left hand slot of the desk ( black face little blue power button). They are on Sound Anchor speaker stands.

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Last edited by KevWind; 02-15-2015 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:55 AM
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Interesting 75 views and no questions or comments. Not sure what exactly that means
No matter I'll stumble on.
I have gone back and revisited some my previous mixes, resulting in both good news and bad.

Good news in that overall the balance was decent. As with the reference CD's, in my mixes these speakers are fairly remarkable in the clear detail of all elements including things like FX's details for example reverb tails etc. And would think this will make for faster and easier decision making while mixing which for us home enthusiasts will be nice, but I would think for those mixing professionally would be a real plus. Which is I'm guessing one of the reason's there has been such a positive buzz in the pro world about this brand or monitor.

The bad news is that small anomalies of technique and playing like the tinniest string buzz and finger squeaks and one of mine the occasional knock of my wedding ring on the neck are readily apparent. The other thing revealed even more is the ambient room noise disk noise etc.


All this will probably result in causing me to go ahead and get the Izotope RX4 plug in.

Another interesting thing that came to light while listening to my CD collection, was the fact that many of the CD's that I have of older recordings (done in the age of the vinyl LP ) actually are lacking in both the depth and dynamics of the CD's I have, which were produced in say the last 5 years or so. Of course this could simply be a reflection of nothing more than quick cheap reproduction of those older albums OR perhaps improvements in converters or both , but it is none the less readily apparent.

Over all the more I listen the more impressed I am
Honestly for anyone who is looking at top quality mid priced and plus monitors, these are definitely ones to consider
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Last edited by KevWind; 02-18-2015 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:49 PM
muscmp muscmp is offline
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kev: i don't think it is any thing personal. ha!

i do enjoy your reviews, but, from my standpoint, i do not have the disposable income for their lowest priced monitors at $1500 if i'm correct. i'm pretty satisfied with mine, and, i will guess that most people are pretty satisfied with theirs. the review may pertain to people who need monitors and have that extra income available. there are many brands of monitors that are much cheaper and will sound great in a home studio. i do notice that most speaker reviews say the same thing. . .that they reveal everything good and bad and, that it is like taking a blanket off of the comparison speakers. i do agree that some of that is due to being able to spend more to get more. or, you get what you pay for.

please continue to provide product reviews. i read all of them from you and ty ford.

play music!
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Old 02-18-2015, 03:23 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Aloha Kev

Aloha Kev,

I think muscmp hit it on the head. Most acoustic players at this site will never pay over $1000 for a pair of monitors, no matter how much evidence or why's to the contrary. Most have never heard the incredible difference that excellent monitors can make to recordings. A few of us do, however.

Thank you for your detailed review, Kev. I'll be checking out the Amphions the next time I'm on the Mainland.

Mahalo for the heads-up, Kev.

A Hui Hou!

alohachris

PS: I've been using Adam A7X's for about seven years now. I really like them because the A7X's are non-fatiguing, have great point-source imaging, depth & sound-staging, & are very detailed w/ the right placement. But I've also begun been looking at other monitors in the next price level too. -alohachris-

Last edited by alohachris; 02-18-2015 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 02-18-2015, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscmp View Post
kev: i don't think it is any thing personal. ha!

play music!
No I wasn't taking it all personally. Also I am fully aware that for most it would be little more than casual interest and certainly everyone has different levels of disposable income that they can put towards recording purchases. And true probably the only genuine interest is to someone looking to upgrade their monitoring

I was just curious in that normally in this forum we are fairly vocal lot on any and all things recording And thank's for your reply


Quote:
Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
Aloha Kev,

I think muscmp hit it on the head. Most acoustic players at this site will never pay over $1000 for a pair of monitors, no matter how much evidence or why's to the contrary. Most have never heard the incredible difference that excellent monitors can make to recordings. A few of us do, however.

Thank you for your detailed review, Kev. I'll be checking out the Amphions the next time I'm on the Mainland.

Mahalo for the heads-up, Kev.

A Hui Hou!

alohachris

PS: I've been using Adam A7X's for about seven years now. I really like them because the A7X's are very detailed w/ the right placement. But I've also begun been looking at other monitors in the next price level too. -alohachris-
Apparently Recording Magazine has a review coming out in the March issue
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Old 02-18-2015, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I have settled on Amphion One 18's powered by an Amphion Amp 100 class D amplifier.
The first thing I noticed was how massive a sound stage these relatively small speakers produce ( 15" H, 7.5" W, 12" D )
The sound seems to come from beyond the speakers themselves both side to side and front and back. At the risk of gushing cliche' hype, very much like being in the in the room.
How is the point-source imaging? Can you close your eyes and discern the location of individual instruments?
Quote:
In comparison the The V'8 very much like lifting an intervening blanket out of the way. All of sudden little background sounds previously unnoticed are there and identifiable as being in the background space. with the prominent musical elements more out front.
The eureka moment!
Quote:
Another thing that becomes apparent is how accurately you hear what's going one with the reverb and delay etc. And the cymbal hits accurate even the tinniest and there and detailed without harshness.
Detail is where it is at.
Quote:
Also It is said that these speakers get better when burned in for 40 hours or so. Hard to believe they can get much better.
That's a function of new drivers. Things need to loosen up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Interesting 75 views and no questions or comments. Not sure what exactly that means
Well I, for one, just stumbled across this review. It happens to me as well, though. The silent room effect.
Quote:
The bad news is that small anomalies of technique and playing like the tinniest string buzz and finger squeaks and one of mine the occasional knock of my wedding ring on the neck are readily apparent. The other thing revealed even more is the ambient room noise disk noise etc.
That's typically considered good news in a monitor... It is bad new for us players...
Quote:
All this will probably result in causing me to go ahead and get the Izotope RX4 plug in.
You'll love it. Some very cool abilities.
Quote:
Another interesting thing that came to light while listening to my CD collection, was the fact that many of the CD's that I have of older recordings (done in the age of the vinyl LP ) actually are lacking in both the depth and dynamics of the CD's I have, which were produced in say the last 5 years or so. Of course this could simply be a reflection of nothing more than quick cheap reproduction of those older albums OR perhaps improvements in converters or both , but it is none the less readily apparent.
You may become addicted to Audio Fidelity and other extreme hi-fi mastering services (subscription mastering?). I have. Many old recordings have great depth but it gets lost in slack mastering jobs. These services restore the detail and depth we remember.
Quote:
Over all the more I listen the more impressed I am
Honestly for anyone who is looking at top quality mid priced and plus monitors, these are definitely ones to consider
How are your ears after a long listening session? Listen thinking about ear fatigue. I remember everyone raving about Yamaha NS-10Ms but the very first session I used them for I was very quickly fatigued.

Congrats on what sound like some great monitors!

Bob
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Old 02-18-2015, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
How is the point-source imaging? Can you close your eyes and discern the location of individual instruments?
Yes point source is very good

Quote:
That's typically considered good news in a monitor... It is bad new for us players...
Indeed I now have a bit more sting buzz being revealed that I am going to have to work on.
Quote:
How are your ears after a long listening session? Listen thinking about ear fatigue. I remember everyone raving about Yamaha NS-10Ms but the very first session I used them for I was very quickly fatigued.
So far I have not noticed any fatigue as such but I have only been listening for aprox 2 hours at any one time so far.


Quote:
Congrats on what sound like some great monitors!

Bob
Thanks I am in fact liking them more and more Have about 10 to 12 hours total burn in so far
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Old 02-18-2015, 06:19 PM
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I forgot to mention in my OP that I first read about and became interested in Amphions on a thread specifically about them on Gear Slutz.com
It started in August and is some 30 pages long but here is link if anyone is interested

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high...beautiful.html
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:30 PM
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Congrats, Kevin. Too bad monitors aren't something you can let us hear :-) Those look really cool.

Good monitors certainly make a huge difference. I recall how dramatic the change was when I first went from some old low-end JBLs to Dynaudios. The next upgrade was less dramatic, but there was certainly that experience of "what's all that stuff I never heard before doing in my recordings?", just like you're finding. Kind of a mixed blessing :-)
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:47 AM
Wengr Wengr is offline
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I'll be interested to see how these fare in the marketplace. It seems to me that the mindset is pretty biased toward the active nearfield.
Personally, I like the idea of passive because I like can chose the amp. At this point, I have not met a class D amp that I have liked. I read that they are getting better all the time, but so far I prefer to avoid them, so the passive seems great in that regard.
But from a pure market strategy standpoint, I don't think it will help, because for boxes at this price point, hopefully most buyers realize that they really should get the top contenders in and evaluate them in their own space. This is a hassle, but it is what it is. To then add the variable of how different amps interact with different monitors really makes it hard.
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wengr View Post
I'll be interested to see how these fare in the marketplace. It seems to me that the mindset is pretty biased toward the active nearfield.
Personally, I like the idea of passive because I like can chose the amp. At this point, I have not met a class D amp that I have liked. I read that they are getting better all the time, but so far I prefer to avoid them, so the passive seems great in that regard.
But from a pure market strategy standpoint, I don't think it will help, because for boxes at this price point, hopefully most buyers realize that they really should get the top contenders in and evaluate them in their own space. This is a hassle, but it is what it is. To then add the variable of how different amps interact with different monitors really makes it hard.
Yes it will be interesting. So far the market for Amphion's pro audio studio line has been primarily for commercial studios. And being new to the pro audio market as of last year as well as only starting in December with US distribution most of sales have been the result of word of mouth and the ringing endorsements from such engineering luminaries as Bruce Swedien as well as uncharacteristically overwhelmingly positive reviews in the GS thread I linked , post # 8 .

As for audition most dealers will offer a trial period to be able to test in your room albeit with the expense of shipping.

No question that active speakers are predominate (sales wise ) in the market.

Largely because of convenience and secondarily because of the "perception" of having the amp designed specifically for the speakers (which in case of most inexpensive monitors actually has more to do with being cost and wattage appropriate and more often than not, off the shelf 3rd party supplied )

Interestingly enough Amphions design theory is strictly passive based on what they feel is better accuracy i.e. that an amp inside the speaker cabinet presents additional reflection and resonance problems and limits you to that amp. Amphions philosophy is that if the speaker design is good, given that amp technology will steadily improve likely faster than speaker design, you can if desired take advantage of those steady amp improvements without having to get and pay for completely new boxes.
Plus as you say you can choose if you want digital or analog amplification.
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Last edited by KevWind; 02-19-2015 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:37 PM
Wengr Wengr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post

Largely because of convenience and secondarily because of the "perception" of having the amp designed specifically for the speakers (which in case of most inexpensive monitors actually has more to do with being cost and wattage appropriate and more often than not, off the shelf 3rd party supplied )

Interestingly enough Amphions design theory is strictly passive based on what they feel is better accuracy i.e. that an amp inside the speaker cabinet presents additional reflection and resonance problems and limits you to that amp. Amphions philosophy is that if the speaker design is good, given that amp technology will steadily improve likely faster than speaker design, you can if desired take advantage of those steady amp improvements without having to get and pay for completely new boxes.
Plus as you say you can choose if you want digital or analog amplification.
Agreed on all points. Kudos to Amphion for valuing these obvious benefits over the popular format.
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Interestingly enough Amphions design theory is strictly passive based on what they feel is better accuracy i.e. that an amp inside the speaker cabinet presents additional reflection and resonance problems and limits you to that amp. Amphions philosophy is that if the speaker design is good, given that amp technology will steadily improve likely faster than speaker design, you can if desired take advantage of those steady amp improvements without having to get and pay for completely new boxes.
Plus as you say you can choose if you want digital or analog amplification.
The main monitors in the control room where I work have been in use for many years that prove this out. We started with one set of power amps and have progressed through others to finally land on a set of really nice David Haffler amps and have watch the improvement in each upgrade. Same thing at home: I worked my way up to a lovely sounding Denon amp while using the same speakers and was able to hear the differences in the amps.

Now, I am impressed with the JBL LSRP powered, EQ'd, and networked monitors that set themselves up. There are a couple of those systems and a set of Genlec 1032a self-powered monitors that are in my rotation when I'm checking out final mixes.

Bob
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:59 PM
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Kevwind,

Cool move on the monitor upgrade. I'm glad you are liking the new ones.

The passive vs. active issues are interesting. I have passive studio monitors (Quested) and active studio monitors (also Quested) and have use three different amps with the passive ones (Hafler, Bryston, Quested). There's certainly a difference when the amp changes. I also use passive PA speakers (Daedalus) for my large gigging rig and have used a few different amps with those (Halfer, Bryston, Parasound). Besides the space within the cabinet, there the whole issue of passive crossovers with passives and bi- or tri- amping with active crossovers for the actives.

I appreciate actives and passives and do not have enough experience with them to opine whether one is better than the other.
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Old 02-20-2015, 09:51 AM
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Does anyone know what drivers Amphion is using?
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