Pickups really do ruin my tone

[AeroUSA]

I'm getting so frustrated. I had a Fishman Matrix Infinity in my OM28 and thought it was OK but a little artificial sounding. I had an Anthem SL installed, I always liked the sound of these a lot.

The problem is that it's completely killed the guitar, it sounds dead now. Not sure if it's the mic or the undersaddle.

I don't know what to do, I'm not a fan of the K&K. Has anyone else had this problem?

[jseth]

Yes, I have the Anthem SL installed in both my Mark Angus 6 and 12 string guitars, and the "unplugged" results were similar to yours, more notably with the 6 string.

I "think" it's that squishy, braided covering on the under-saddle part of the pickup... the good news is that, after a period of time, the tone and volume on my guitar "came back" closer to normal... with me, it took about 4-6 months, but I could hear "something" changing after about 3 months...

If I didn't love the pickup when amplified, I would have taken it out right away...

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I'm getting so frustrated. I had a Fishman Matrix Infinity in my OM28 and thought it was OK but a little artificial sounding. I had an Anthem SL installed, I always liked the sound of these a lot.

The problem is that it's completely killed the guitar, it sounds dead now. Not sure if it's the mic or the undersaddle.

I don't know what to do, I'm not a fan of the K&K. Has anyone else had this problem?

If you decide to come back to the Matrix. We could still start again with the IR tailoring.

Cuki

[pieterh]

I used to have the Matrix in my Guild but damaged the shielding when changing bridge saddle. I went over to K&K Pure Mini and am very happy with the results.

That said, I was doing FOH sound for an artist recently who had a more recent version of the Matrix with only the end pin preamp and sound hole controls, ie no barn door controls, and it sounded excellent, very natural.


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[guitaniac]

I agree with jseth. The Element UST and the DTAR Wavelength UST do deaden the guitar a bit, but the dampening effect seems to lessen with time.

FWIW, the very pricey Barbera Soloist (a passive in-saddle pickup) reportedly has little or no effect on the guitar's acoustic tone. Its made of a special material which the Soloist creator (Rich Barbera) claims may even improve the guitar's acoustic tone.

The Soloist has received a lot of user praise here on the AGF, so you could search for comments or solicit user observations.

Doug Young has demonstrated (with recordings) that it apparently works well with ToneDexter, the caveat being that it needs a special training method. (I believe Doug said that he only played the 6th, 4th and 2nd strings.)

Some downsides are that the Soloist is very pricey, and it may need to be installed by a professional. You need to measure your current saddle and order a Soloist of the closest size. An ebony shim may be required, or the saddle can be slightly shaped (if memory serves correctly).

Here's a link to the Barbera website:

http://www.barberatransducers.com/

[Vancebo]

Dazzo through a Red Eye or any other preamp of your choice. Your pickup journey will be complete.

[Mandobart]

There are so many things that make a UST sound bad, despite their continued popularity. SBT's like K&K, Dazzo and JJB are superior in many ways, not the least being having no effect on the acoustic sound. For those that are happy with their UST its great. Those who are tired of fighting physics and acoustics should try a SBT.

[Petty1818]

I am taking my Anthem SL out for that same reason. I was going to upgrade to the full Anthem because I do really like the pickup but I haven't liked the sound of my guitar since installing the SL. I won't say all pickups ruin the sound, just some.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I'm getting so frustrated. I had a Fishman Matrix Infinity in my OM28 and thought it was OK but a little artificial sounding. I had an Anthem SL installed, I always liked the sound of these a lot.

The problem is that it's completely killed the guitar, it sounds dead now. Not sure if it's the mic or the undersaddle.

I don't know what to do, I'm not a fan of the K&K. Has anyone else had this problem?

Can you go back to the Fishman, return the Anthem, and get a preamp pedal to use with the Fishman like the Tonedexter, Aura, Zoom, TC Body Rez, etc?

I have to be honest, I think most pickups alter tone one way or another. The Baggs pickups sound a little better than the Fishman, to my ears, but they seem to alter the tone of the guitar. The lightest impact system I've personally used is the passive K&K. However, it comes with it's own problems and requires superglue, which I am no longer a fan of using.

Since the release of IR convolution solutions like Aura or the Tonedexter, I think there is little reason to go crazy loading your guitar full of various devices, in most situations.

I'll probably be installing a replacement Trance Amulet M-VT system in my prized Martin next week. I'm still on the fence because I really like how the guitar sounds after I removed the original system. I even hedged by purchasing an inexpensive Taylor with the ES2 to use for gigs.

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Can you go back to the Fishman, return the Anthem, and get a preamp pedal to use with the Fishman like the Tonedexter, Aura, Zoom, TC Body Rez, etc?

I have to be honest, I think most pickups alter tone one way or another. The Baggs pickups sound a little better than the Fishman, to my ears, but they seem to alter the tone of the guitar. The lightest impact system I've personally used is the passive K&K. However, it comes with it's own problems and requires superglue, which I am no longer a fan of using.

Since the release of IR convolution solutions like Aura or the Tonedexter, I think there is little reason to go crazy loading your guitar full of various devices, in most situations.

I'll probably be installing a replacement Trance Amulet M-VT system in my prized Martin next week. I'm still on the fence because I really like how the guitar sounds after I removed the original system. I even hedged by purchasing an inexpensive Taylor with the ES2 to use for gigs.

The Amulet M-VT Phantom version (which has less bulk to go inside the guitar) would be more well suited to address your concerns about intrinsic tone alteration, don't you think?

The M-VT Phantom is the system that I wanted for my D-28 Authentic '37 if the bridge would have accommodated the sensors, for the exact reasons of this thread topic.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by jomaynor

The Amulet M-VT Phantom version (which has less bulk to go inside the guitar) would be more well suited to address your concerns about intrinsic tone alteration, don't you think?



The M-VT Phantom is the system that I wanted for my D-28 Authentic '37 if the bridge would have accommodated the sensors, for the exact reasons of this thread topic.

You're correct. And, in fact, I am considering ordering the phantom. However, I'm not positive that the battery is what's altering the tone. The Lenses are fairly light, but you still have the preamp and controls there.

I see you've learned the same lesson that the '37A does not accommodate the Trance lenses.

I'm a die hard pickup fan, but I'm starting to side with the old timers that some guitars should not have pickups.



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[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

There are so many things that make a UST sound bad, despite their continued popularity. SBT's like K&K, Dazzo and JJB are superior in many ways, not the least being having no effect on the acoustic sound. For those that are happy with their UST its great. Those who are tired of fighting physics and acoustics should try a SBT.

And some of us choose a UST because we're tied of fighting physics and acoustics when strong to get sufficient bass and volume without feedback for our particular gigs. It's a matter of choosing the right tool for the job.

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

You're correct. And, in fact, I am considering ordering the phantom. However, I'm not positive that the battery is what's altering the tone. The Lenses are fairly light, but you still have the preamp and controls there.

I see you've learned the same lesson that the '37A does not accommodate the Trance lenses.

I'm a die hard pickup fan, but I'm starting to side with the old timers that some guitars should not have pickups.



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Exactly. I've come around to that way of thinking with the '37A. If it can't be externally mic-ed successfully at a gig, then I'll just use another guitar.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by jomaynor

Exactly. I've come around to that way of thinking with the '37A. If it can't be externally mic-ed successfully at a gig, then I'll just use another guitar.

I actually sent my D28 37A back and bought the Golden Era Custom I have now. I couldn't get on with the neck. The GE bridge plate is just a tiny bit wider and accepts the lenses. When I removed the whole system to send in for bench testing, I was surprised at how much more alive the guitar sounded. So much so, that I bought a Taylor to use for gigs a few days later. Usually when I'm playing the Martin they have sound for us, and I can use a mic. I'm on the fence for now about reinstalling. The Martin + Trance is definitely better plugged in than the Taylor + ES2. But, not miles ahead. And, I suppose there are other advantages to having a dedicated acoustic/electric guitar.


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[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I actually sent my D28 37A back and bought the Golden Era Custom I have now. I couldn't get on with the neck. The GE bridge plate is just a tiny bit wider and accepts the lenses. When I removed the whole system to send in for bench testing, I was surprised at how much more alive the guitar sounded. So much so, that I bought a Taylor to use for gigs a few days later. Usually when I'm playing the Martin they have sound for us, and I can use a mic. I'm on the fence for now about reinstalling. The Martin + Trance is definitely better plugged in than the Taylor + ES2. But, not miles ahead. And, I suppose there are other advantages to having a dedicated acoustic/electric guitar.


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Ha, I hear you, regarding the neck. I just dug in and basically relearned how to chord up the neck, using classical thumb-posting and barre contortions on anything past the 3rd fret (where the "V" starts getting deeper and the neck more massive) instead of my tried-and-true thumb-over voicings.

One thing's for certain (besides the fact that this guitar's sound is addictive) - my left hand (especially my thumb and index finger) is a lot stronger now, by necessity.