Arranging study group session #2

[stanron]

Thanks GB. As I get older it takes longer and longer to learn stuff so I generally just learn stuff I might want to perform. I'm mostly working on more folk orientated material plus early Americana.

I look forward to your arrangement.

Stan.

[EllaMom]

Yes, Stanron, I liked it very much. You added a lot of musicality to it. Well done!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by stanron

Here's another arrangement. This time in A, three open bass notes for chords I, IV, and V.


[IMG][/IMG]

Here's an mp3 file generated by the score.

https://app.box.com/s/v81ilb0tmwg6p3x2w6e3wn0su9ss6tya

No cruelty to chords here folks. Not a single one slapped.

Thanks stanron! That is a very nice arrangement! Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

I am involved in anew course on the piano right now, and I am just not motivated to arrange Imagine for either instrument. I suppose I really should get an arrangement together for guitar since I started the thread. I keep saying that, but then I just never get to it. You have done two very nice arrangements so far. Thanks for that.

This probably sounds like heresy, but I really don't care much at all for what the members of the Beatles did individually after the breakup, least of all John Lennon's work. There was something about the chemistry of the Beatles, and maybe the time in history was right. Whatever it was, it worked well. I did like Paul McCartney's album with the bowl of cherries on the front cover. But that was about it for me. Maybe I was just moving on musically to other stuff, I really don't know.

Tony

[stanron]

Thanks EllaMom. One idea I used here was harmonised vertical scales. A vertical scale is a scale played up or down one string. In the key of A, on the third string you have A at the second fret, B at the fourth, C# at the sixth and D at the seventh, and so on.

In this instance I harmonised it with the note one sixth higher on the first string. A sixth above the third string A is F# on the top E string. Both notes are at the second fret. Take these up through the A major scale and you get this;

┌─2──4──5──7──9──10──12──14────╖
├──────────────────────────────╢
├─2──4──6──7──9──11──13──14────╢
├──────────────────────────────╢
├──────────────────────────────╢
└──────────────────────────────╜

or with more detail

┌─2(F#)──4(G#)──5(A)───7(B)──9(C#)──10(D)───12(E)───14(F#)────────────╖
├─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
├─2(A)───4(B)───6(C#)──7(D)──9(E)───11(F#)──13(G#)──14(A)─────────────╢
├─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
├─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╜

There are several different ways of doing these. You can use third intervals on adjacent strings and you might know Blackbird which uses mostly tenth intervals. A tenth is an octave plus a third. If you try the tab you will see that there are only two shapes. As long as you stick to scale notes there will only be two shapes. The way to get used to these is by trusting your ears. If you can remember the sound of the Major scale your ears will tell you when you get the shapes right.

Tony, thanks. I agree about John Lennon and Paul McCartney. They had distinctly different musical characters which produced a combination that neither had on his own. When they were new they were unlike anything else around. For eight years they kept surprising us. That'll do me.

Cheers

Stan

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by stanron

Thanks EllaMom. One idea I used here was harmonised vertical scales. A vertical scale is a scale played up or down one string. In the key of A, on the third string you have A at the second fret, B at the fourth, C# at the sixth and D at the seventh, and so on.

In this instance I harmonised it with the note one sixth higher on the first string. A sixth above the third string A is F# on the top E string. Both notes are at the second fret. Take these up through the A major scale and you get this;

┌─2──4──5──7──9──10──12──14────╖
├──────────────────────────────╢
├─2──4──6──7──9──11──13──14────╢
├──────────────────────────────╢
├──────────────────────────────╢
└──────────────────────────────╜

or with more detail

┌─2(F#)──4(G#)──5(A)───7(B)──9(C#)──10(D)───12(E)───14(F#)────────────╖
├─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
├─2(A)───4(B)───6(C#)──7(D)──9(E)───11(F#)──13(G#)──14(A)─────────────╢
├─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
├─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╜

There are several different ways of doing these. You can use third intervals on adjacent strings and you might know Blackbird which uses mostly tenth intervals. A tenth is an octave plus a third. If you try the tab you will see that there are only two shapes. As long as you stick to scale notes there will only be two shapes. The way to get used to these is by trusting your ears. If you can remember the sound of the Major scale your ears will tell you when you get the shapes right.

Tony, thanks. I agree about John Lennon and Paul McCartney. They had distinctly different musical characters which produced a combination that neither had on his own. When they were new they were unlike anything else around. For eight years they kept surprising us. That'll do me.

Cheers

Stan

Thanks for sharing this! I am going to print it out and noodle around with it the next time I'm within reach of a guitar.

[Grinning Boy]

Hi All,

The general feeling people expressed about this song is that it's repetitive, so I tried to think of ways to mix it up a little. At first I thought about modulating between a few keys.

Then I remembered someone describing this song as John's "anthem for a movement of people". So I thought it would be cool to play it as if a different person/voice is saying each phrase, like a TV commercial when different faces appear one after another to express support for a cause.

To give each phrase a different voice I was thinking to ascend in 4ths, but since the second chord of each phrase was a 4th that didn't work. So I ended up using the circle of 5ths to change the key for each phrase to try and give the illusions of different people speaking up!

It sounds different I know, but if nothing else it's been good practice for playing the circle of 5ths! I start on key of B and play every key and end in E to play the last final measures and finally return to B.

The picture word prop over my left shoulder was a last second addition when I remembered it hanging on our bathroom wall. I bought it on a whim at a tourist shop on vacation one time. Sort of corny I know, but it seemed right for this for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io-xKOvc6YE

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

Hi All,

The general feeling people expressed about this song is that it's repetitive, so I tried to think of ways to mix it up a little. At first I thought about modulating between a few keys.

Then I remembered someone describing this song as John's "anthem for a movement of people". So I thought it would be cool to play it as if a different person/voice is saying each phrase, like a TV commercial when different faces appear one after another to express support for a cause.

To give each phrase a different voice I was thinking to ascend in 4ths, but since the second chord of each phrase was a 4th that didn't work. So I ended up using the circle of 5ths to change the key for each phrase to try and give the illusions of different people speaking up!

It sounds different I know, but if nothing else it's been good practice for playing the circle of 5ths! I start on key of B and play every key and end in E to play the last final measures and finally return to B.

The picture word prop over my left shoulder was a last second addition when I remembered it hanging on our bathroom wall. I bought it on a whim at a tourist shop on vacation one time. Sort of corny I know, but it seemed right for this for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io-xKOvc6YE

That's an interesting arrangement and nicely played. By it's nature Imagine is harmonically simple and dosen't lend itself to chord melody arrangement as well as earlier, more complex, Great American Songbook material. Your arrangement overcomes that problem very well.

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

Hi All,

The general feeling people expressed about this song is that it's repetitive, so I tried to think of ways to mix it up a little. At first I thought about modulating between a few keys.

Then I remembered someone describing this song as John's "anthem for a movement of people". So I thought it would be cool to play it as if a different person/voice is saying each phrase, like a TV commercial when different faces appear one after another to express support for a cause.

To give each phrase a different voice I was thinking to ascend in 4ths, but since the second chord of each phrase was a 4th that didn't work. So I ended up using the circle of 5ths to change the key for each phrase to try and give the illusions of different people speaking up!

It sounds different I know, but if nothing else it's been good practice for playing the circle of 5ths! I start on key of B and play every key and end in E to play the last final measures and finally return to B.

The picture word prop over my left shoulder was a last second addition when I remembered it hanging on our bathroom wall. I bought it on a whim at a tourist shop on vacation one time. Sort of corny I know, but it seemed right for this for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io-xKOvc6YE

Paul, I really appreciate how you conceptualized this arrangement...the many voices, because I could TOTALLY 'see' that as you played through. I imagine (pun TOTALLY intended) that it had to have been hard to change keys so often. WoW! And yet, you pulled it off.

Here's what I learned, conceptually, in suggesting "Imagine" at the beginning of this thread: I had no clue it was such a simple, repetitive arrangement. So much so that it didn't inspire too many folks to offer their own versions. That in itself has been an education. What if I'd suggested "Moon River" or "Autumn Leaves"...for example? But for those who have stepped forward with their own arrangements of "Imagine," I am grateful and inspired. It's kind of like the old fairytale about making 'Nail Soup' from so few ingredients.

Anyway, thanks for sharing!

[Grinning Boy]

Thank you Stanron and Carol for the kind words about the arrangement

I agree with you Stanron about earlier songs working better for solo instrumental guitar. I grew up on pop music from the 60s forward and I love it. But let's face it, most more modern music was written on guitars and is chord strumming and rhythm based. Earlier music was composed more on piano and was melody and harmony based which makes it much better for solo guitar. On the other hand, later music often had much more substantive lyrics, almost poetry. I can't think of many earlier songs that carried the kind of powerful message John wrote with Imagine.

And Carol as far as song selections in a way it's good to have tough songs to arrange. I think the spirit of these arranging group study threads is to work on songs most people haven't tried. Moon River and Autumn Leaves probably don't fit in that category.

However since the participation hasn't been real strong on this, perhaps we should start a thread #3? What do you think Tony?

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

Thank you Stanron and Carol for the kind words about the arrangement

I agree with you Stanron about earlier songs working better for solo instrumental guitar. I grew up on pop music from the 60s forward and I love it. But let's face it, most more modern music was written on guitars and is chord strumming and rhythm based. Earlier music was composed more on piano and was melody and harmony based which makes it much better for solo guitar. On the other hand, later music often had much more substantive lyrics, almost poetry. I can't think of many earlier songs that carried the kind of powerful message John wrote with Imagine.

And Carol as far as song selections in a way it's good to have tough songs to arrange. I think the spirit of these arranging group study threads is to work on songs most people haven't tried. Moon River and Autumn Leaves probably don't fit in that category.

However since the participation hasn't been real strong on this, perhaps we should start a thread #3? What do you think Tony?

First, I think that you did a really good job of trying to make "Imagine" interesting.

As for the nature of tunes from different eras, I agree that the standards' era had the best selection of tunes that stand on their own in most any musical setting. However, I also think that, during the 70s, there were a number of tunes that were equally well written. The weird thing for me is that I thought of the 70s as a cultural wasteland for quite some time because disco seemed to stand out for me. It was in hindsight that I began to realize how many really strong ballad type tunes there were, and these stand up well in any musical setting.

The problem for me with much of pop music is that, once removed from the original recording, even played live, the tunes seem to fall apart. It took studio wizardry skilled studio musicians to make some of that stuff work at all.

I just have not had the discipline to bring myself to work on "Imagine" and I was the one who started the thread and decide that Carol's suggestion of "Imagine" would be the tune we work on. I do apologize for that.

What happened for me in my personal life during this time is that I got a self-teaching piano course that really does teach what I want to learn on piano. My wife and I went on a cruise back around 2001/2002 and I was getting really interested in piano. I asked the guy who played solo "cocktail" style piano to give me paid lessons. He wasn't interested.

However, he showed me very quickly that he had a "system" of chord voicings and rhythm patterns that he applied to lead sheets to play all his gigs. At the time, I was not at all equipped to understand this. However, over at the piano forum, a poster recently recommended a particular course that I had never heard of, so I checked out the youtube videos of the course teacher's seminars and sure enough, there were those patterns the cruise ship guy used!

I ordered the course and its supplements, and it arrived just about the time this thread was started. Ever since, I have been off and running with the piano, all day, every day, and making progress.

Here is my problem right now with the guitar. I love the guitar, but fingerstyle guitar is really an intimate private thing. Outside of these forums (and even here, it is but a subset interest), folks just are not interested in listening to a solo fingerstyle guitar performance. If you have a guitar, people want to hear you sing. If you play piano, those same people love to stop and listen, whether you sing or not.

I don't sing and have absolutely no interest in singing. It takes time and effort to learn to sing because the human voice is just as much a musical instrument as any other instrument. To me, just bellowing along with guitar strums is not "music" (though there are folks who have done quite well doing nothing more than that), and that is what I would be doing unless I respected my voice and learned to use it musically. That is simply not where my interests lie.

I have played guitar in a number of bands ranging from middle of the road pop music to pseudo jazz. I have no problem playing in that environment, leads and chord fills and that sort of thing. However, there are things about being in a band that tend to become less fun and interesting over time, and also move me farther from my own musical interests. As we get older, it seems more difficult to put a band together and keep it together.

I want to play music as a volunteer in hospitals, nursing homes, etc., and unless I have an ensemble, the piano is the way to go (especially now with portable keyboards), and I am finally really learning the style that allows me to do that. I can practice for hours on end on guitar, learning to play a solo fingerstyle piece, whether my own arrangement or somebody else's, and I will end up only playing it for myself and maybe my wife on occasion (or a youtube video with occasional views).

With the system I am learning on the piano, I can learn to play a nice full, flowing arrangement from a fakebook (i.e. endless repertoire), and folks WANT to hear that.

So, I am shifting my priorities from the guitar to piano for the foreseeable future, at least until I have reached my goals in that area. I will continue to play guitar, but as a sideline.

So if somebody else wants to take over the arranging threads, I would be very appreciative. If a song comes along in such a thread that I come up with an arrangement for, I will certainly post a video. But for the next several months, I am focusing primarily on building my facility with this system. The system is quite comprehensive, encompassing both accompaniment and solo playing, both of which are suitable for what I want to ultimately do.

Thanks,

Tony

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

First, I think that you did a really good job of trying to make "Imagine" interesting.

As for the nature of tunes from different eras, I agree that the standards' era had the best selection of tunes that stand on their own in most any musical setting. However, I also think that, during the 70s, there were a number of tunes that were equally well written. The weird thing for me is that I thought of the 70s as a cultural wasteland for quite some time because disco seemed to stand out for me. It was in hindsight that I began to realize how many really strong ballad type tunes there were, and these stand up well in any musical setting.

The problem for me with much of pop music is that, once removed from the original recording, even played live, the tunes seem to fall apart. It took studio wizardry skilled studio musicians to make some of that stuff work at all.

I just have not had the discipline to bring myself to work on "Imagine" and I was the one who started the thread and decide that Carol's suggestion of "Imagine" would be the tune we work on. I do apologize for that.

What happened for me in my personal life during this time is that I got a self-teaching piano course that really does teach what I want to learn on piano. My wife and I went on a cruise back around 2001/2002 and I was getting really interested in piano. I asked the guy who played solo "cocktail" style piano to give me paid lessons. He wasn't interested.

However, he showed me very quickly that he had a "system" of chord voicings and rhythm patterns that he applied to lead sheets to play all his gigs. At the time, I was not at all equipped to understand this. However, over at the piano forum, a poster recently recommended a particular course that I had never heard of, so I checked out the youtube videos of the course teacher's seminars and sure enough, there were those patterns the cruise ship guy used!

I ordered the course and its supplements, and it arrived just about the time this thread was started. Ever since, I have been off and running with the piano, all day, every day, and making progress.

Here is my problem right now with the guitar. I love the guitar, but fingerstyle guitar is really an intimate private thing. Outside of these forums (and even here, it is but a subset interest), folks just are not interested in listening to a solo fingerstyle guitar performance. If you have a guitar, people want to hear you sing. If you play piano, those same people love to stop and listen, whether you sing or not.

I don't sing and have absolutely no interest in singing. It takes time and effort to learn to sing because the human voice is just as much a musical instrument as any other instrument. To me, just bellowing along with guitar strums is not "music" (though there are folks who have done quite well doing nothing more than that), and that is what I would be doing unless I respected my voice and learned to use it musically. That is simply not where my interests lie.

I have played guitar in a number of bands ranging from middle of the road pop music to pseudo jazz. I have no problem playing in that environment, leads and chord fills and that sort of thing. However, there are things about being in a band that tend to become less fun and interesting over time, and also move me farther from my own musical interests. As we get older, it seems more difficult to put a band together and keep it together.

I want to play music as a volunteer in hospitals, nursing homes, etc., and unless I have an ensemble, the piano is the way to go (especially now with portable keyboards), and I am finally really learning the style that allows me to do that. I can practice for hours on end on guitar, learning to play a solo fingerstyle piece, whether my own arrangement or somebody else's, and I will end up only playing it for myself and maybe my wife on occasion (or a youtube video with occasional views).

With the system I am learning on the piano, I can learn to play a nice full, flowing arrangement from a fakebook (i.e. endless repertoire), and folks WANT to hear that.

So, I am shifting my priorities from the guitar to piano for the foreseeable future, at least until I have reached my goals in that area. I will continue to play guitar, but as a sideline.

So if somebody else wants to take over the arranging threads, I would be very appreciative. If a song comes along in such a thread that I come up with an arrangement for, I will certainly post a video. But for the next several months, I am focusing primarily on building my facility with this system. The system is quite comprehensive, encompassing both accompaniment and solo playing, both of which are suitable for what I want to ultimately do.

Thanks,

Tony

This is completely understandable Tony. Piano is beautiful. I could sit and listen to a pianist jamming on well know tunes for hours. It sounds like the course you are studying is a practical and efficient way to learn the style that interests you.

Music is music. People here are all fortunate that they have chosen to make playing it a part of their lives. I think it makes sense to move to the place that moves you as far as making music. Since piano has captured that passion for you, it would make no sense not to pursue it. And it's hard enough to work on one instrument, let alone two!

Still I hope we see you and your posts around here in the future.

Paul

[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

...Outside of these forums (and even here, it is but a subset interest), folks just are not interested in listening to a solo fingerstyle guitar performance. If you have a guitar, people want to hear you sing. If you play piano, those same people love to stop and listen, whether you sing or not...

I agree with and respect most everything you said in your post, but in truth I'm scratching my head a little about the two bolded parts above, especially the first one. If folks are not interested in listening to solo fingerstyle guitar, how does one account for the world wide popularity of such as Tommy Emmanual, Chet Atkins (even posthumously), Doyle Dykes to name just several in a very abbreviated list. They are not singers.

My observation regarding piano players is the opposite of yours, but that is just my experience. I think, whether guitar, piano, violin, flute, whatever, it's a matter of the mastery of the instrument that holds people's attention. Mediocrity will garner temporary attention and then people drift away. Mastery with hold people's attention regardless the instrument.

Regardless, I think Grinning Boy has framed it well and I agree with what he has said. Good luck with your piano endeavors. It's important to pursue the things that hold one's interests and follow that path whole heartedly.

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

Music is music. People here are all fortunate that they have chosen to make playing it a part of their lives. I think it makes sense to move to the place that moves you as far as making music. Since piano has captured that passion for you, it would make no sense not to pursue it. And it's hard enough to work on one instrument, let alone two!

Still I hope we see you and your posts around here in the future.

Paul

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Nailpicker

I agree with and respect most everything you said in your post, but in truth I'm scratching my head a little about the two bolded parts above, especially the first one. If folks are not interested in listening to solo fingerstyle guitar, how does one account for the world wide popularity of such as Tommy Emmanual, Chet Atkins (even posthumously), Doyle Dykes to name just several in a very abbreviated list. They are not singers.

My observation regarding piano players is the opposite of yours, but that is just my experience. I think, whether guitar, piano, violin, flute, whatever, it's a matter of the mastery of the instrument that holds people's attention. Mediocrity will garner temporary attention and then people drift away. Mastery with hold people's attention regardless the instrument.

Regardless, I think Grinning Boy has framed it well and I agree with what he has said. Good luck with your piano endeavors. It's important to pursue the things that hold one's interests and follow that path whole heartedly.

Here are a couple of my observations:

1. Chet Atkins only made two solo guitar albums in his heyday that I know of, and neither was popular. I found them almost quite by accident. Most of his albums had other instruments backing him (i.e. a band).
2. TE is much more of a showman than simply a solo fingerstyle player. His concerts are an event, rather than just him sitting down to play guitar for the audience. It is much more than just the guitar, it is him as the consummate entertainer.
3. Earl Klugh had two solo guitar albums (maybe three). When I saw him in concert, he had a band and did not play his solo material. Most people I know who have heard of him, have not heard his solo albums because they did not get the airplay as his ensemble albums did (just like Chet Atkins).
4. In informal settings where folks are just sitting around, if I play some solo guitar pieces that I know well and can deliver, people don't really pay attention. Somebody else can be strumming three chords and singing, and that person always has the audience, and does not have to be really good. This always happens.
5. I have see it again and again, people love good solo piano. You can go to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, and they have pianos around the downtown outpatient building for people to play. Hospitals around here will have a piano in the main lobby area and there are volunteers who will come to play for an hour or two. They don't have to be great players by any means, but they always attract folks listening.
6. I tried an experiment when I was still working full time. I brought a CD to work of Edgar Cruz (a top notch classical player, if you have not heard of him) playing rock tunes he arranged for classical guitar. Every person I had listen to it said it was "boring". Some time later, I brought in a solo piano CD of similar tunes, but arranged for solo piano by Scott Davis. People loved it and wanted to know where to get it.
7. At most any solo fingerstyle guitar concert I have attended, whether house concert or auditorium, the attendees are either fingerstyle players or their spouses or girl/boy friends. When TE played here at the Minnesota State Fair, he played for free at the small stage and few people even stopped to listen. For me, that was great because I got to spend time with him. For him, it was probably not so great.
8. A guy I know brought David Qualey to the Twin Cities (if you have not heard of him, look for him on Youtube). He and I put up posters around town well in advance and told anybody who would listen about him and the concert. He played an open mic for free the night before so people could hear him. After all that, the auditorium was nowhere near filled.
9. Tracy Moore stayed with my wife and I some years ago and we took him down to Carlton College to play a concert. Nobody showed, so he played just for us.
10. Taylor guitars used to sponsor fingerstyle players in seminars given at no charge to the public. These (around here were typically held at Guitar Center. Players such as Chris Proctor (if you have not heard of him, you can check Youtube again), Preston Reed and others. Most people paid absolutely no attention, and the store activity went on business as usual with all the noise and people trying guitars. The exception was Steven King (again, check Youtube if you have not heard of him). Everything stopped and the walls were lined with both employees and customers. He is a showman, easily on par with TE. Even so, most people even in guitar forums have not really heard of him. Whenever I mentioned him even to other guitar players, I have to qualify him as "the guitar player, not the author".
11. When Mark Hanson came to town, he played a concert the night before, and held a seminar the next day. At the concert, the population was, once again, fingerstyle players and their spouses or girl/boyfriends. The gneeral population would have no idea who he is.
12. I took some lessons for arraning for solo guitar for a few months some years ago while I was working full time. My teacher is an excellent player, well versed in classical as well as fingerstyle and can play very much like Johnny Smith for solo chord melody. He played in a mall on one occasion, hoping to generate interest in lessons. He asked me to come see him play. I did, but I was the onyl one there who paid any attention at all. Everybody else walked past him, without even a glance. in another mall not too long after, there was a guy playing a Chapman Stick. He had a crowd around him and he too was really good. when I have seen solo piano players in a mall, there are always people sitting and listening.
13. There used to be a musician's flea market held near the state capitol every March. One year, Billy McLaughlin played solo guitar. He was standing in front of one of the music store booths. People jostled around him as he played, and nobody stopped to listen except me. I was stunned when heard that music and had to find it among that crowd of people. I had not heard of him until then. I bought his CDs. Since he is local, I did see him on a special program on the local PBS station last year because he had medical problems that affected his ability to play guitar. He overcame that and was explaining how, while he played.

I should probably just stop here. I hope this stops the "head scratching".

What I am saying may make absolutely no sense at all to most here, or at least is not a comfortable thing to consider, but those are my real life experiences. I have personally found that solo fingerstyle guitar works quite well in very narrowly specific situations - an interlude in a church service, a house concert specifically featuring a fingerstyle player.

You mentioned Doyle Dykes. Nobody I know has ever heard of him at all. Why do I know who he is? Because I have a specific interest in fingerstyle guitar.

For me, it isn't a question of which is "better", but rather what my goals are. If I want to play as a volunteer, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the piano is (at least in my neck of the woods), clearly the instrument of choice. For me, it is simply a matter of facing the realities. Fortunately, I really do enjoy the piano as much as I do the guitar.

As a guitar player, I have always done quite well in ensemble situations, with plenty of that kind of experience, professionally and otherwise. Maybe I am not a good fingerstyle player by your standards, but I can tell you that when done in the right situations, I have always gotten good feedback on my playing. The most common comment I have gotten is "I didn't know you could do all that on one guitar". Why would adults say that when Chet Atkins had been doing it for so long? Because they always heard him with a band, not solo. I don't want to make myself out to be any better than anyone else here, but I can play well enough that I get compliments i those very few situations in which solo fingerstyle guitar works. Many people I know can listen to one or two solo tunes at most, but then they crave more, such as somebody singing or at least other instruments begin involved.

We here in these forums who play fingerstyle guitar, tend to think our world is a lot bigger than it really is.

This was not a decision made lightly on my part, which is why I was so transparent in my post. I know this isn't a popular view, but I have listed some real life experiences to back up my point, since it is being questioned. I have a lot invested in my guitar activities, both in terms of a collection of nice guitars and the time spent learning to play. I have been teaching myself piano on and off for a few years, but now, since retiring, have the time to spend consistently as I didn't as much when working. I have been reconsidering what I want to do with the rest of my life, and music is a big part of it. For me, the guitar will continue to hold an important place, but as an intimate instrument I play at home for my own enjoyment, with the occasional playing out most likely in a band situation or backing a singer as the opportunity presents itself (which it does). For playing out solo, the piano/keyboard will yield a better situation for me, based on my experiences and observations. If I also sang, then maybe there would be reason to reconsider, but I have no interest in that.

Tony

[Doug Young]

I think you have to play what you like to play because you like to play it. If you want to do something because other people will like it, that's a different path. Most people don't know solo guitar exists. Most people don't know about Charlie Parker. Most people probably can't name a tune by Bach. If you want to interest most people musically, you need to sing, preferably something with a strong beat - and you'd better look good, be young, and be able to dance :-) That's ok, it's how it is. But we don't have to define "good" or "worthwhile" by whether it's massively popular. Do what you enjoy, and know that there will be some people who appreciate it, and that will be all the more meaningful (at least to you) because you're not just doing what everyone does.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I think you have to play what you like to play because you like to play it. If you want to do something because other people will like it, that's a different path. Most people don't know solo guitar exists. Most people don't know about Charlie Parker. Most people probably can't name a tune by Bach. If you want to interest most people musically, you need to sing, preferably something with a strong beat - and you'd better look good, be young, and be able to dance :-) That's ok, it's how it is. But we don't have to define "good" or "worthwhile" by whether it's massively popular. Do what you enjoy, and know that there will be some people who appreciate it, and that will be all the more meaningful (at least to you) because you're not just doing what everyone does.

Very simply, I am NOT defining "good" or "worthwhile" by whether its massively popular. I am looking at what I want to do with some of my time in retirement and what will provide that outlet. I enjoy BOTH piano and guitar, and in my experience, the piano/keyboard is the instrument that seems most acceptable in the environments I want to play. I had hoped I made that clear in my post, and now I am repeating myself.

If there is followup to my post that is not consistent with the intentions expressed in those posts, then I must apologize here and now for not being completely clear in what I am saying. I honestly don't know how to make it any more clear.

Tony