Is the Fender Duluxe Reverb gig worthy?

[terrapin]

personally, I would never put a Celestion speaker in a Fender amp. They are very much "British" voiced and will not IMO give you a classic Fender sound. I would say Jensen or Weber. I personally LOVE the Jensen Neo's.

As far as the Deluxe being gig worth. I did a gig on Sunday night with a full band using only my Princeton Reverb Reissue miked through the system and got a TON of compliments about how great both the clean and OD sound was.

The Deluxe would be a GREAT gig amp for most occassions.

[Gypsyblue]

Originally Posted by terrapin

personally, I would never put a Celestion speaker in a Fender amp. They are very much "British" voiced and will not IMO give you a classic Fender sound. I would say Jensen or Weber. I personally LOVE the Jensen Neo's.

As far as the Deluxe being gig worth. I did a gig on Sunday night with a full band using only my Princeton Reverb Reissue miked through the system and got a TON of compliments about how great both the clean and OD sound was.

I gig with my Deluxe Reverbs and/or Princeton Reverb all the time. I get the same kind of compliments. Got a Celestion G12H30 in one DR, a Celestion G1265 in my other DR and a Celestion G12 alnico in the PR. No one has ever said I sounded like I was playing through a Marshall or a British amp.

[Crazyquilt]

Originally Posted by terrapin

personally, I would never put a Celestion speaker in a Fender amp. They are very much "British" voiced and will not IMO give you a classic Fender sound. I would say Jensen or Weber. I personally LOVE the Jensen Neo's.

Agreed. I've got a Emi Cannabis Rex in my blackfaced '69 DR. Talk about loud! I have a Weber 10F150T in my PRRI, which made all the difference in the world for that amp. If the CRex hadn't worked out, I would have gone for a Weber 12F150.

I've heard great things about the Jensen Neos, and in my small experience, in a few amps, they are nice -- and light. But that being said, I've never liked them enough to keep them in one of my amps.

As for the Italian Jensens or the old Oxfarts that are often in old Fenders...blech.

[Gypsyblue]

Originally Posted by Crazyquilt

I've heard great things about the Jensen Neos, and in my small experience, in a few amps, they are nice -- and light. But that being said, I've never liked them enough to keep them in one of my amps.

As for the Italian Jensens or the old Oxfarts that are often in old Fenders...blech.

My feelings as well. Liked but didn't love the Neo's. Good...but not great. Never liked farty Oxfords either...just another cheap speaker, IMO, even if they do date from the 50's and 60's. Nor have I ever cared for the CTS speakers that came in many, many 60's Super Reverb Amps.

But I do wish folks would listen to Celestions without prejudice. This British voicing thing is mostly just prejudice and expectations...not 100% reality. I suppose if a Taylor or Martin guitar had Celestion or Marshall or Vox on the peghead people would expect it to sound "British" too.

Celestions were used in the Vox amps the Beatles used and the Beatles never sounded like they were playing through Marshalls. They did sound like they were playing through a Vox amp though.

And David Lindly has a Celestion in his favorite tweed 50's wide panel Fender Deluxe amp - the one he used for Running On Empty. Doesn't sound like a Marshall or Vox. Sounds like a gorgeous sounding old Fender amp - which is what it is.

[terrapin]

Saying something sounds "British" does not necessarily equate with Marshall. I won't try to defend the Neo's as I know they are speakers people either really like or don't. I think their best attribute is that they are virtually transparent and allow whatever amp they are in to do its' own thing. I have a 10" in my PRRI and a 12" in my Juke Coda and would never change them.

As far as being light. That only really becomes noticeable whe you get to a 12". My PRRI is only negligibly lighter with the Neo then it was with the original speaker.

Getting back to the Deluxe, if it is a Reissue then what can change it from a very nice amp to a great amp is not only a speaker change, but good NOS tubes and getting rid of the undersized Output Transformer. I did all these mods with my PRRI and the difference is HUGE!

[Gypsyblue]

Originally Posted by terrapin

Saying something sounds "British" does not necessarily equate with Marshall. I won't try to defend the Neo's as I know they are speakers people either really like or don't. I think their best attribute is that they are virtually transparent and allow whatever amp they are in to do its' own thing. I have a 10" in my PRRI and a 12" in my Juke Coda and would never change them.

As far as being light. That only really becomes noticeable whe you get to a 12". My PRRI is only negligibly lighter with the Neo then it was with the original speaker.

Getting back to the Deluxe, if it is a Reissue then what can change it from a very nice amp to a great amp is not only a speaker change, but good NOS tubes and getting rid of the undersized Output Transformer. I did all these mods with my PRRI and the difference is HUGE!

Didn't know there was a problem with the output tranny in the RI DR. Mine are both originals from '66 and '67. But at one time I owned both a silverface and a blackface Princeton Reverb and I always thought the blackface sounded a little better so I sold the silverface. When I put a new baffleboard to accommodate a 12" speaker in my Princeton Reverb (an easily reversible mod) we found that my blackface PR had a vintage Deluxe Reverb output tranny in it! Great amp...hangs right in there with either of my old Deluxe Reverbs and between the Celestion G12 alnico and DR OT sounds much better than any of the farty sounding reissues I occasionally share the stage with at blues jams and the like.

[HudsDad]

Fender cut a few too many corners with the DRRI, but I still consider it a good amp in it's price range. Regarding the output transformers, I compared the units in my '64 DR to my '05 DRRI and the old transformer (made in US) weighed almost 8oz more than the new one (unmarked, but rumored to be Korean). On my test bench, the old unit was superior in inductance, frequency modulation and flux density, as well. There are a few companies that make good replacement OT's, but I tend to prefer Mercury Magnetics or Hammond when I'm buying new.

For my DRRI, I dropped a new MM transformer, removed the bright cap on channel 2, changed the inverter coupling cap to a .02uf orange, installed a a set of NOS Sylvania tubes and a new Weber Alnico. Since I bought the amp used, the total cost was about the same as a new DRRI and it sounds like a Deluxe Reverb should sound.

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by HudsDad

Fender cut a few too many corners with the DRRI, but I still consider it a good amp in it's price range. Regarding the output transformers, I compared the units in my '64 DR to my '05 DRRI and the old transformer (made in US) weighed almost 8oz more than the new one (unmarked, but rumored to be Korean). On my test bench, the old unit was superior in inductance, frequency modulation and flux density, as well. There are a few companies that make good replacement OT's, but I tend to prefer Mercury Magnetics or Hammond when I'm buying new.

For my DRRI, I dropped a new MM transformer, removed the bright cap on channel 2, changed the inverter coupling cap to a .02uf orange, installed a a set of NOS Sylvania tubes and a new Weber Alinco. Since I bought the amp used, the total cost was about the same as a new DRRI and it sounds like a Deluxe Reverb should sound.

The Heyboer OT Tranny I used in my PRRI weighed nearly a full pound more then the factory Tranny. This tightened up the bass SO much and gave the overall tone of the amp so much more focus. Bought the Heyboer for $50.00 new and it took all of one hour to install!! Time and $ well spent!

[HudsDad]

Originally Posted by Gypsyblue

But I do wish folks would listen to Celestions without prejudice. This British voicing thing is mostly just prejudice and expectations...not 100% reality. I suppose if a Taylor or Martin guitar had Celestion or Marshall or Vox on the peghead people would expect it to sound "British" too.

I don't believe there is any prejudice being shown by those who say Celestions or Fanes have a "British voice." The frequency response of those speakers were optimized for the EL84/EL34 amps being used by Marshall, Vox, HiWatt and other British manufacturers of the day. The same was true on the other side of the pond where Jensens were voiced for the 6V6/6L6 Fenders.

Of course a Celestion won't make a Fender sound like a Marshall, but they do lend a British accent to the tone. I have test cabs in my shop where I can A/B speakers side-by-side through the same amp. When I switch from a Weber or Jensen to a Celestion or a Fane, the difference in voicing/freq response is very obvious, especially in the cleans. This isn't good or bad, but it is different. And you can get some wonderful sounds with any combination of the above.

That's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors, after all.

[lmacmil]

Originally Posted by Gypsyblue

I have a small stash of original Chicago made Jensens from the 50's and 60's - those used in the Fender amps of the 50's and 60's: P10R, C12N, etc. The Italian made Jensens don't sound much like them.

Note that I suggested a Weber version of the old Jensens, not the Italian copies which I agree aren't very good.

When it gets right down to it, it's all a matter of personal preference. You prefer the Celestion sound, I prefer the Jensen sound (as interpreted by Ted Weber). Who know what the OP will like?

I'll also note that in a band context, tone subtleties can become lost in the roar.

[SwimTrunks]

Originally Posted by lmacmil

Note that I suggested a Weber version of the old Jensens, not the Italian copies which I agree aren't very good.

When it gets right down to it, it's all a matter of personal preference. You prefer the Celestion sound, I prefer the Jensen sound (as interpreted by Ted Weber). Who know what the OP will like?

I'll also note that in a band context, tone subtleties can become lost in the roar.

im just taking it all in, i have no idea what i like for a speaker, i just know i love the classic fender clean sound. i also like the crunchy sound too but i can make the crunch with my blues driver, so i need it clean.

thanks,

[Gypsyblue]

Originally Posted by SwimTrunks

im just taking it all in, i have no idea what i like for a speaker, i just know i love the classic fender clean sound. i also like the crunchy sound too but i can make the crunch with my blues driver, so i need it clean.

thanks,

That's the assumption a lot of folks have about Celestion speakers: that somehow they are not as clean as Jensens or Webers or whatever. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Celestion G12H30 is more efficient than any stock 12" speaker that originally came in a Deluxe Reverb - old or new. Because the Celestion is more efficient it actually makes a DR sound both louder and cleaner when it comes to clean tones. And when you go for a solo the Celestion overdrives beautifully with a great vocal quality.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by SwimTrunks

I have a 25 watt peavey bravo 112. There is no way this thing has enough juice to play a small gig without breaking up. i even put new tubes in it, maybe i should replace the speaker?

if im correct, the deluxe reverb is 22 watt. do you think its gig worthy?
would it be a more powerful amp than my peavey?

i like to play my strat with a clean sound no breakup.

thanks!

For some people, the Bravo 112 is gig worthy amp. I once saw a street performer in San Francisco playing through one and was surprised at how loud it was over the noise of a busy street but then he was playing the blues and you specified clean tones. Whatever the headroom difference between it and the Deluxe Reverb, I wouldn't expect there to be so much of a difference as to make one suitable for undistorted performance on stage and not the other. In fact, the Fender's tube rectifier may even place it at a disadvantage in terms of headroom but having never compared the two, I really don't know.

To put things in perspective, all else being equal, a 25-watt amplifier produces about 81% of the volume that a 50-watt amplifier does. Depending on which speaker is mounted in the Peavey, replacing it with a JBL or Electro-Voice speaker could have the same effect on volume as doubling the Peavey's power output which wouldn't be much of a change. Doubling amplifier power yields a volume increase of 3 dB.

[SwimTrunks]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

For some people, the Bravo 112 is gig worthy amp. I once saw a street performer in San Francisco playing through one and was surprised at how loud it was over the noise of a busy street but then he was playing the blues and you specified clean tones. Whatever the headroom difference between it and the Deluxe Reverb, I wouldn't expect there to be so much of a difference as to make one suitable for undistorted performance on stage and not the other. In fact, the Fender's tube rectifier may even place it at a disadvantage in terms of headroom but having never compared the two, I really don't know.

To put things in perspective, all else being equal, a 25-watt amplifier produces about 81% of the volume that a 50-watt amplifier does. Depending on which speaker is mounted in the Peavey, replacing it with a JBL or Electro-Voice speaker could have the same effect on volume as doubling the Peavey's power output which wouldn't be much of a change. Doubling amplifier power yields a volume increase of 3 dB.

This makes sense, thanks.
Im trying to figure out if there maybe is something else wrong with the Peavey amp.

I replaced the tubes but it just seems like its not as clean as it should be. Maybe its just the amp. Like most people are saying here, I should replace the speaker i guess.

Is there anything else maintenance wise that I should have done, or maybe I should just take it into the shop and ask someone who works on them.

This amp says 25w rms, so I assume that means its a 25 watt amp. Its about the same size as a Princeton Reverb.

Would maybe a Fender Pro Reverb be better for me than the Fender DR? 40 watts?

I am gigging now and I just want to get a good all around amp, that isn't massive, and that still stays clean. I rented a Twin Reverb a couple weeks ago and it had tons of clean volume, but the thing is so heavey I dont want to ever carry one again.

[TerryAllanHall]

Originally Posted by SwimTrunks

I have a 25 watt peavey bravo 112. There is no way this thing has enough juice to play a small gig without breaking up. i even put new tubes in it, maybe i should replace the speaker?

if im correct, the deluxe reverb is 22 watt. do you think its gig worthy?
would it be a more powerful amp than my peavey?

i like to play my strat with a clean sound no breakup.

thanks!

Teach your drummer to play softer...

I did gigs w/ a SF Deluxe Reverb for years (before retiring it and using a 40-w Peavey), and the rare instance that it wasn't loud enough, I mic'd it through the PA. We're talking the usual sized bar/VFW/wedding/etc.

For that matter, your Peavey'd likely work just fine by following the above solution.

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