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  #1  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:43 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Default Techniques to learn for alt/nu indie folk

Hi, all, my knowledge of theory and such has outstripped my technique so I'm shifting focus to technique and asking for input to help me focus on techniques appropriate to the genre I want to (mostly) play - acoustic alternative or nu folk and indie. I'm asking because I spent a fair bit of time today trying to figure out what "sweep picking" is, just to make sure I didn't want to learn it for some reason. I don't.

Typically, I don't use a pick/plectrum. I can transition chords well and use barres. I've got walkup/downs, alt bass, hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides, bends, some simple percussive stuff, but all of this is at a late beginner level, and I really need suggestions for fairly easy songs in the genre that will let me practice incorporating these.

I play with a lot of dynamics and any techniques for enhancing that would be great.

I do a fair bit of fingerpicking and have the basic, most common patterns. Interesting alternatives are always great - one can't have too many fingerpicking patterns.

Names of genre relevant techniques you can tell me to google or look up on youtube and any songs you can recommend to better apply the ones I know about but need practical work on will be greatly appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 05-05-2017, 01:11 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Hm, no one knows any guitar techniques? That seems unlikely!
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  #3  
Old 05-05-2017, 01:33 PM
stanron stanron is offline
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I would help if I could but I have no idea what 'acoustic alternative or nu folk and indie' actually is.

Could you link to a track or two or three that would give me an idea?
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:54 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Oh, the genre! Right, of course, sorry.

You can just of think of it as modern folk, very acoustic. But here's one of my favorites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PK1nxv2e8c
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  #5  
Old 05-05-2017, 02:00 PM
stanron stanron is offline
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That looks like it's in an open D tuning, capo three. Strumming with the thumb rather than finger picking. Any help?
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  #6  
Old 05-05-2017, 02:04 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Originally Posted by stanron View Post
That looks like it's in an open D tuning, capo three. Strumming with the thumb rather than finger picking. Any help?
Yes, thanks, I know what she's doing. She (and I) use lots of alternate tuning. She's not doing anything very difficult or different technically. I'm just asking for other techniques, other than the ones I know of, that I might be missing, which suit folk/acoustic playing. Iow, not sweep picking or other things that might better suit electric guitars and rock or metal genres.

And maybe more importantly simple songs where I could work on applying techniques from the list that I do know.
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  #7  
Old 05-05-2017, 02:06 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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I don't know if you'll find my reply useful. What I play in could be labeled indie-folk. Back the 20th Century my band called itself punk-folk so we'd have something to call it. I like many of the common artists that would put in that bin: Bonnie Prince Billy, Sam Amidon, Iron and Wine, Bon Iver, the Decembrists and many more. If indie music is like it often is, even that short list will have you or others saying "No xxx isn't indie folk, that's yyy music." Which will be kind of one of the points I'm going to make.

Your inventory of skills, though you couch it as some sort of beginner level, sounds fairly broad. You might already have all the skills to play successfully, assuming your material is compelling to an audience. If you're not writing original material, or doing original arrangement of others tunes, that would be the place to start. Songs will ask you learn techniques. Wouldn't hurt to branch out onto other stringed instruments if you haven't. Every instrument you learn, even a little bit, can suggest a song.

If you play solo, or sing in your band, how are your vocals? Crafting compelling vocals will help immensely. That has been a lifelong problem for me personally, but even on an acoustic guitar forum I've got to mention this. Three cowboy chords and vocals that communicate is a riveting performance. A new picking pattern or novel chord voicing is not a crucial.

How's your rhythm? Another weak point for me at times, but again, even with the loosest and most spacey music, some kind of groove will catch and satisfy more ears.

The other thing, the point I said I'd make, is that you will steal from folks you like, but I think it can help to steal badly, or steal from many artists who aren't really doing the same thing. In either case you'll sound original, which to my mind is what the indie in indie-folk should sound like. That list of common current artists often put in the indie folk bin--I'll steal from them all, even if I'm not good enough to copy them, and I'll steal from lots of older folkies who didn't play by the rules too.
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  #8  
Old 05-05-2017, 02:15 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
I don't know if you'll find my reply useful. What I play in could be labeled indie-folk. Back the 20th Century my band called itself punk-folk so we'd have something to call it. I like many of the common artists that would put in that bin: Bonnie Prince Billy, Sam Amidon, Iron and Wine, Bon Iver, the Decembrists and many more. If indie music is like it often is, even that short list will have you or others saying "No xxx isn't indie folk, that's yyy music." Which will be kind of one of the points I'm going to make.

Your inventory of skills, though you couch it as some sort of beginner level, sounds fairly broad. You might already have all the skills to play successfully, assuming your material is compelling to an audience. If you're not writing original material, or doing original arrangement of others tunes, that would be the place to start. Songs will ask you learn techniques. Wouldn't hurt to branch out onto other stringed instruments if you haven't. Every instrument you learn, even a little bit, can suggest a song.

If you play solo, or sing in your band, how are your vocals? Crafting compelling vocals will help immensely. That has been a lifelong problem for me personally, but even on an acoustic guitar forum I've got to mention this. Three cowboy chords and vocals that communicate is a riveting performance. A new picking pattern or novel chord voicing is not a crucial.

How's your rhythm? Another weak point for me at times, but again, even with the loosest and most spacey music, some kind of groove will catch and satisfy more ears.

The other thing, the point I said I'd make, is that you will steal from folks you like, but I think it can help to steal badly, or steal from many artists who aren't really doing the same thing. In either case you'll sound original, which to my mind is what the indie in indie-folk should sound like. That list of common current artists often put in the indie folk bin--I'll steal from them all, even if I'm not good enough to copy them, and I'll steal from lots of older folkies who didn't play by the rules too.
This was actually incredibly helpful. Since I'm learning on my own, it helped me see I'm on the right track. Thank you so much!

Everything you mentioned, I am working on. I am trying to develop myself as a complete musician, not just a guitarist, with the goal of playing my original music. Other instruments, vocals, rhythm all in the works as well as theory, ear-training, even music history and some simple sight reading - which is why I feel like the physical/technical side on guitar might be lagging behind the other stuff, but you helped a lot by saying it probably at least might be ok.

And, oh, yes, we steal. I'm working on some new material that incorporates very old folk songs and poems among other things.

I really appreciate your answer. I'll look for your music online. Thanks, again.
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Taylor 320e Baritone

Cheap Righty Classical (played upside down ala Elizabeth Cotten)

Last edited by SunnyDee; 05-06-2017 at 03:02 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-06-2017, 02:44 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDee View Post
This was actually incredibly helpful. Since I'm learning on my own, it helped me see I'm on the right track. Thank you so much!

Everything you mentioned, I am working on. I am trying to develop myself as a whole musician, not just a guitarist, with the goal of playing my original music. Other instruments, vocals, rhythm all in the works as well as theory, ear-training, even music history and some simple sight reading - which is why I feel like the physical/technical side on guitar might be lagging behind the other stuff, but you helped a lot by saying it probably at least might be ok.

And, oh, yes, we steal. I'm working on some new material that incorporates very old folk songs and poems among other things.

I really appreciate your answer. I'll look for your music online. Thanks, again.
Glad it was helpful. I was worried right after I posted that I'd come off as overly prescriptive, but putting IMHO in front of every sentence seems tedious to do. And your takeaway, that you may already have enough guitar skills to start may be a key. There are no licensing or certification tests for folk or nu-folk that you need to pass!

You're working to get better, that's good. A great many good players got better, eventually good, after starting.

Listen to what I do and then do the opposite! (grin) I violate a lot of good rules: can't sing, rhythm not solid, playing gets sloppy, esoteric and downright dreary topics. Luckily I have an audience that must either overlook that, or hopes I get better.

Trad. folk songs are great places to steal melodies from, because Anonymous can't afford to hire a lawyer. I'm currently stealing from out-of-copyright poetry in my current project too. Helps me in that I get to try out more musical ideas than I have time to write lyrics for. And singing and composing from other people's outlooks stretches my imagination.

You can do either or both to develop your writing. Write or throw your lyrics onto a trad. melody or write music to fit old poems.
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Creator of The Parlando Project

Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses....
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2017, 03:00 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
Glad it was helpful. I was worried right after I posted that I'd come off as overly prescriptive, but putting IMHO in front of every sentence seems tedious to do. And your takeaway, that you may already have enough guitar skills to start may be a key. There are no licensing or certification tests for folk or nu-folk that you need to pass!

You're working to get better, that's good. A great many good players got better, eventually good, after starting.

Listen to what I do and then do the opposite! (grin) I violate a lot of good rules: can't sing, rhythm not solid, playing gets sloppy, esoteric and downright dreary topics. Luckily I have an audience that must either overlook that, or hopes I get better.

Trad. folk songs are great places to steal melodies from, because Anonymous can't afford to hire a lawyer. I'm currently stealing from out-of-copyright poetry in my current project too. Helps me in that I get to try out more musical ideas than I have time to write lyrics for. And singing and composing from other people's outlooks stretches my imagination.

You can do either or both to develop your writing. Write or throw your lyrics onto a trad. melody or write music to fit old poems.
Thanks for the encouragement, I really appreciate it. I saw your piece using Oven Bird. I liked that a lot.
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Taylor 320e Baritone

Cheap Righty Classical (played upside down ala Elizabeth Cotten)
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