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  #91  
Old 04-14-2011, 02:01 PM
Chalz Chalz is offline
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Originally Posted by Garthman View Post
One of the points that I made earlier was the fact that pick-ups do indeed vary a lot - even when they are sold as being the same. This is true of all pick-ups, cheap and expensive. I've lost count of the number of mods I've done for friends over the years but I've tested most of the pick-ups I've used and the difference is marked. For example, I very recently replaced a broken bridge PU in a USA Fender Strat. I also tested the neck and middle picups while I was doing the work. Both Fender Lace Sensors Silver - the neck was 6.8kohm and the middle was 7.3kohm. These are pick-ups that retail at round the £75 mark and they showed a 7.5% difference in output rating!!!

Now are you going to tell me that the wood that the guitar is made from is going to make that sort of % difference? And what about the differnce in tone and volume controls, cables . . . . ?

And I wrote a paragraph about how acoustic and electric guitars differ because it is painfully obvious that many people do confuse the two - just read back and see how many people believe that the sound they hear when they play an electic acoustically is amplified by the pick-up.
The Taylor Solidbody enables someone to install the same exact pickguard-mounted electronics and quickly swap it into guitars made out of different woods. I've removed the pickguard from a solid ash body and placed it in a solid sapele body. Guess what? They sounded strikingly different. The pickups and wiring were the exact same. The bodies were cut the exact same. The necks were cut the exact same. They were essentially the same exact guitars with two different woods. And why did they sound different? Because they were made out of different woods.

I could take the PAFs out of my all mahogany Les Paul Studio and mount them into my maple/alder Stratocaster using the same pots, same wires, and same output jack. Guess what? They'll sound VASTLY different. I could pull a Duncan JB Jazz out of my hollowbody and wire it up with my Solidbody, yet the Solidbody would never sound anything like an ES-335. Why? Because wood has a whole lot to do with the tone of a guitar.

At this point I'm considering one of two things:

1) You're just trolling this thread with random babble to get a rise out of folks...in which case I'm done attempting to reason with you.

or

2) You have no idea what you're talking about, but you're absolutely positive you're correct just because you've been saying it for 4+ decades...in which case I'm done attempting to reason with you.


I'll say one thing though: In the long run, though, you're probably better off than most of us gearheads...I'd love to not be able to tell the difference between plywood and mahogany. My collection would be much cheaper to complete if that were the case.
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  #92  
Old 04-14-2011, 02:05 PM
Gypsyblue Gypsyblue is offline
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Boring as this thread has gotten, I've got to say that my year 2000 ES-335 is every bit as nice as the 50's and 60's ES-335's I used to play back in the day.

I'm 61 years old and have owned many Gibsons (and Fenders) from the 50's and 60's including three late 50's Sunburst Les Pauls and quite a few ES-335 style guitars.

My favorite Gibson I ever owned (up until finding my latest ES-335) was a non stereo/non varitone 1960 ES-355 that was my main guitar from about 1972 until it was stolen around 1980 and I never thought I'd find a guitar I liked as well that I could afford.

Then a couple of years ago I found my used, year 2000 ES-335 for $1700 and I grabbed it. The owner lived on the western slope about 200 miles away and we met halfway in a McDonalds parking lot in Vail, Colorado. Didn't even need to plug it in - I just knew it was the one. It's every bit as nice as any Gibson I've ever owned.

So Gibson may make some dogs but they're not all dogs. My ES-335 is a GREAT guitar.
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  #93  
Old 04-14-2011, 02:22 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Originally Posted by Chalz View Post
... 1) You're just trolling this thread with random babble to get a rise out of folks...in which case I'm done attempting to reason with you.
I don't think that is the case.

Quote:
2) You have no idea what you're talking about, but you're absolutely positive you're correct just because you've been saying it for 4+ decades...in which case I'm done attempting to reason with you.
I wouldn't say he has no idea what he's talking about; it is clear he has quite a bit of knowledge. One can be knowledgable and still harbor a misapprehension or two.
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  #94  
Old 04-15-2011, 03:20 AM
Garthman Garthman is offline
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Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
I don't think that is the case.



I wouldn't say he has no idea what he's talking about; it is clear he has quite a bit of knowledge. One can be knowledgable and still harbor a misapprehension or two.
Thank you (albeit a little condescending perhaps? - but I'll forgive that).

No I'm not trolling and I don't think I'm mistaken or harbouring misapprehensions. I'm just stating what I believe to be true based on my experience with guitars and my knowledge of science and I think I have presented reasoned arguements to explain the matter (often more than once).

Now whether people agree or disagree with me is entirely up to the individual - but I see no reason why anyone needs to descend to insults or accusations of trolling etc if they do disagree. A weakness on their behalf, perhaps.

I actually see little point in contributing further to the discussion. I think we have reached the "fairies at the bottom of the garden" stage: well OK, they might be there but I've never seen them and don't believe in them. Some-one may think that is my loss - but I don't think so.
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  #95  
Old 04-15-2011, 05:07 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Originally Posted by Garthman View Post
Thank you (albeit a little condescending perhaps? - but I'll forgive that).

No I'm not trolling and I don't think I'm mistaken or harbouring misapprehensions. I'm just stating what I believe to be true based on my experience with guitars and my knowledge of science and I think I have presented reasoned arguements to explain the matter (often more than once).

Now whether people agree or disagree with me is entirely up to the individual - but I see no reason why anyone needs to descend to insults or accusations of trolling etc if they do disagree. A weakness on their behalf, perhaps.

I actually see little point in contributing further to the discussion. I think we have reached the "fairies at the bottom of the garden" stage: well OK, they might be there but I've never seen them and don't believe in them. Some-one may think that is my loss - but I don't think so.
No condescension was intended. It is certainly arguable whether you have a misapprehension regarding solid-body influence on string vibration but it is inarguable that knowledgeable people are not immune from a mistaken belief or incorrect interpretation.
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  #96  
Old 04-15-2011, 12:21 PM
Garthman Garthman is offline
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Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
No condescension was intended. It is certainly arguable whether you have a misapprehension regarding solid-body influence on string vibration but it is inarguable that knowledgeable people are not immune from a mistaken belief or incorrect interpretation.
Absolutely. But not on this occasion.
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  #97  
Old 04-15-2011, 12:27 PM
Chalz Chalz is offline
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Originally Posted by Garthman View Post
Absolutely. But not on this occasion.
Out of curiosity, what would it take to convince you otherwise?
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