High beams aka blinds

[mc1]

what about hi-beams, oncoming traffic, and a divided highway (where some combination of grass/trees/ditch/curves separate the two directions?

i wonder what the common practice and law is in this case?

Originally Posted by architype

If you can willfully block the passing lane then I can warn my fellow drivers of the presence of the police.
Let's call it even and avoid that rabbit hole again.

So would you warn a guy you see about to steal something from a store that an undercover cop is inside? Same principle. Regardless of Riker's left-lane habits, the issue remains...

[seannx]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

So would you warn a guy you see about to steal something from a store that an undercover cop is inside? Same principle. Regardless of Riker's left-lane habits, the issue remains...

I wouldn't warn the person about to steal, but would alert one of the store clerks to his/her behavior.

As far as flashing lights to a speeder goes, that's more complicated IMO. Lots of things can contribute to speeding. I think of flashing lights more as a common courtesy, and if it gets the driver to slow down and be more aware, that achieves a positive result. A speeding ticket where I live is a big, expensive deal, and sometimes all you need is a little reminder.

[Fatstrat]

Are you sure you aren't confusing the much brighter Halogen lights with someone using high beams. In my job I drive a fairly new truck. And oncoming traffic, particularly truckers, often flash their lights to signal me me to lower mine. But I can't as I am already on "low beam". Then they often brite light me in retaliation.
Went through this on my previous "new" truck as well. It lasted until the lenses got hazy w/age.

[architype]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

So would you warn a guy you see about to steal something from a store that an undercover cop is inside? Same principle. Regardless of Riker's left-lane habits, the issue remains...

How is someone speeding taking something from someone? I don't agree with your analogy.

I go 4-5 mph over the speed limit on the interstate and most cops let that slide. I appreciate a warning from oncoming traffic if there is a cop ahead since I might catch him/her on the day they decide not to let it slide, and I bring my speed down to the posted speed.

I'm just returning the courtesy.

Originally Posted by seannx

A speeding ticket where I live is a big, expensive deal, and sometimes all you need is a little reminder.

That's the point. A big, expensive deal is going to make more of an impact than getting off scot-free. I speak from experience. All it took was one speeding ticket for me to cure me of my bad habit. Not just the money, but having to answer to an authority. I'm glad no one warned me of that unmarked black Charger sitting on the side of the road I needed the ticket, and so does anyone else who chooses to speed (there is no good reason, unless it's life or death, in which case the police usually end up escorting you to the hospital...).

[kydave]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

So would you warn a guy you see about to steal something from a store that an undercover cop is inside? Same principle. Regardless of Riker's left-lane habits, the issue remains...

This is a bad analogy.

While most of us would agree stealing is inherently a bad thing, few of us would agree that blind obedience to speed limits is necessarily a good thing to be avoided at all costs.

Some laws are made to be broken and there is nothing inherently bad or immoral about doing so - simply illegal.

Common practice in the South back in the day was that if you were going one way and saw a cop setting up a speed trap for the other direction was to flash oncoming drivers during the daylight, especially. They knew exactly what you meant, flashed a return "Thank you" and slowed down.

Originally Posted by architype

How is someone speeding taking something from someone? I don't agree with your analogy.

I go 4-5 mph over the speed limit on the interstate and most cops let that slide. I appreciate a warning from oncoming traffic if there is a cop ahead since I might catch him/her on the day they decide not to let it slide, and I bring my speed down to the posted speed.

I'm just returning the courtesy.

I said the principle is the same, not the situation. In either case, you're helping someone who is breaking the law avoid justice. Naturally, the one breaking the law appreciates the warning

Btw, I totally understand about going with the flow of traffic and all that. I'm talking about people who are not, and most cops, including the HP are looking for those people.

Originally Posted by kydave

This is a bad analogy.

While most of us would agree stealing is inherently a bad thing, few of us would agree that blind obedience to speed limits is necessarily a good thing to be avoided at all costs.

Some laws are made to be broken and there is nothing inherently bad or immoral about doing so - simply illegal.

Common practice in the South back in the day was that if you were going one way and saw a cop setting up a speed trap for the other direction was to flash oncoming drivers during the daylight, especially. They knew exactly what you meant, flashed a return "Thank you" and slowed down.

Since you guys don't seem to understand how analogies work (not all points are being compared, obviously, only the relevant ones), let me use a less extreme one, but still makes the point. Let's stick to traffic laws. This is a true story. About two weeks ago, I noticed a county cop sitting down a cul-de-sac in my neighborhood, down from a 4-way stop that people routinely roll through or disregard completely. According to your ethics, it would be acceptable to park on the perpendicular street and flash my lights at people approaching the 4-way stop, so they would be aware of the cop's presence and wouldn't be held accountable for doing what they normally do (run the sign).

Traffic laws are not pointless. Speed limits are set, and stop signs are placed for reasons of safety, both to you, your passengers, and other people on the roadway as well as pedestrians. And even if you disagree, it's still the law, and you agree to abide by it by possessing a valid driver's license.

Again, I understand that speed limits are "flexible" in terms of traffic flow and all that. Heck, even a modest "California stop" at a sign might get a pass from a cop. But we're talking about people with blatant disregard for traffic laws. Let them get the ticket they deserve. Also, in my view, warning others of speed trap is obstructing justice.

Curious: do any of you non-speeders (ahem) find my theft analogy bad?

Still trying to wrap my mind around this one:

Originally Posted by kydave

Some laws are made to be broken and there is nothing inherently bad or immoral about doing so - simply illegal.

Going back to my other analogy, a lot of thieves have convinced themselves of that very same "principle." Self-justification can be an amazing thing...anything except admit that you are doing something wrong and ought to be held accountable.

[architype]

I've had plenty of speeding tickets over the course of my life and I don't drive as fast as I used to in my younger days...(I always had cars that begged to be driven fast and that is what they were built for). Now I drive a pickup truck, so it is less tempting and less fun to go really fast.

I don't care if someone else is speeding as long as they aren't driving in an erratic manner. I also think the driving test should be much harder and weed out people that are just bad drivers....and there are a lot of them in this country.
I think there should be a road course w/ obsticles to avoid with heavy breaking or evasive maneuvers. I think all drivers should be required to demonstrate that they know how to steer into a skid...not just check it as the right box on a multiple choice test.

I like the German Autobahn concept. If you can pass their test and have a vehicle capable of safely travelling at high speed then you are approved to do so. There, drivers know to stay in the right lane except to pass and they know to get out of the way when they see flashing lights in their rearview mirror...ahhh, yet another use for high beams!

[architype]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

This is a true story. About two weeks ago, I noticed a county cop sitting down a cul-de-sac in my neighborhood, down from a 4-way stop that people routinely roll through or disregard completely. According to your ethics, it would be acceptable to park on the perpendicular street and flash my lights at people approaching the 4-way stop, so they would be aware of the cop's presence and wouldn't be held accountable for doing what they normally do (run the sign).

.

Again, you are comparing in town driving to interstate driving. Of course I stop at stop signs and stop lights. Traffic is generally more dense in town and there is much greater potential for running into someone. I don't speed in that situation, because your time and distance to react to someone running a light or a kid running out in front of you is much less.

Interstates are made to drive fast and efficiently...that is why they don't have stop signs. Anyone willfully running a stop sign needs to get a ticket or even lose their priveledge to drive for a while.

Originally Posted by architype

I've had plenty of speeding tickets over the course of my life and I don't drive as fast as I used to in my younger days...(I always had cars that begged to be driven fast and that is what they were built for). Now I drive a pickup truck, so it is less tempting and less fun to go really fast.

I don't care if someone else is speeding as long as they aren't driving in an erratic manner. I also think the driving test should be much harder and weed out people that are just bad drivers....and there are a lot of them in this country.
I think there should be a road course w/ obsticles to avoid with heavy breaking or evasive maneuvers. I think all drivers should be required to demonstrate that they know how to steer into a skid...not just check it as the right box on a multiple choice test.

I like the German Autobahn concept. If you can pass their test and have a vehicle capable of safely travelling at high speed then you are approved to do so. There, drivers know to stay in the right lane except to pass and they know to get out of the way when they see flashing lights in their rearview mirror...ahhh, yet another use for high beams!

In the meantime, we're not in Germany, and our roads are not built like the Autobahn. I rarely encounter speeders who are not driving in erratic manner. The two usually go hand in hand, unless you're talking about an abandoned straightaway where the speeder does not have to navigate around law-abiding citizens who are trying to get from point A to point B alive.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I cannot in good conscience help others avoid being held accountable for their choice to speed. And I fail to see any good reasons for being able to do so in good conscience presented here. Again, I'm not talking about doing 65 in a 60 when 90% of the people are going 70. You know the ones I'm talking about, and so do the police.

Originally Posted by architype

Again, you are comparing in town driving to interstate driving. Of course I stop at stop signs and stop lights. Traffic is generally more dense in town and there is much greater potential for running into someone. I don't speed in that situation, because your time and distance to react to someone running a light or a kid running out in front of you is much less.

Interstates are made to drive fast and efficiently...that is why they don't have stop signs. Anyone willfully running a stop sign needs to get a ticket or even lose their priveledge to drive for a while.

So you are the determiner of which laws are acceptable to break and not to break? Good luck explaining that at your next traffic stop

[architype]

The police also have the authority to use their own descretion given the situation. They are not required to blindly adhere to the letter of the law.
A state trooper offered this story once when I went to driving school to wipe out a ticket...(yes, in my younger days).

He was out on a remote rural section of four lane parkway very early on a Sunday morning when a red Farrari streaked by him in the opposite direction. He did a 180 degree turn in the median and started in persuit. He was up to 150mph and was not catching up to him.
All of a sudden the guy slowed down and pulled over.
It wasn't a kid driving and the guy looked to be in his late 40's and could clearly handle the car at high speed and there was no one else on the road.
He asked him what he was doing and the guy said the car had been tuned up and he was taking it out to see what it could do. He was very apologetic and said he picked this stretch of road because it is always deserted especially at this time on a Sunday.
The officer could have put him in jail and thrown away the key, but since the guy stopped and was being cooperative he reduced the ticket to 85 mph in a 55mph zone.
If it had been 5:00pm on a Wed. the guy would never be driving again.

[kydave]

Still trying to wrap my mind around this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kydave View Post
Some laws are made to be broken and there is nothing inherently bad or immoral about doing so - simply illegal.
Going back to my other analogy, a lot of thieves have convinced themselves of that very same "principle." Self-justification can be an amazing thing...anything accept admit that you are doing something wrong and ought to be held accountable.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around any sane person equating someone breaking the speed limit and someone stealing.

As to laws - Laws don't make something right or wrong - only illegal.

Back in the day I certainly had no moral qualms about smoking a doobie. I've certainly broken the speed limit at times, but not driving in a dangerous manner (for instance, doing 75 on a straight deserted highway in the middle of the night in a 65 zone). I've never lost any sleep over any of it, and I defy anyone to claim I'm a "bad" person for any of it.

And I do (and not because of the law, but because it is polite and considerate and safe) lower my high beams for oncoming traffic and would never dream of driving behind someone with my high beams on intentionally.