Newbie with opinions on guitars in general but Taylors in specific

[ctvolfan]

Hello, I have read this forum on and off for years and finally have a question. Actually I am not even sure if it's as much of a question as it is me looking for opinions or even validation.

In 2005 I bought a brand new solid wood Taylor 214 which of course is now called a 314. This guitar was the best guitar I had ever purchased up to that point as far as quality and money spent. I still absolutely love this guitar but I have been wanting a cutaway electric.

A couple months ago I was fortunate enough to be able to finally purchase a cutaway electric and I bought a brand new 2017 model 714ce with the western sunburst finish. This guitar is absolutely beautiful but after buying it and coming home to play it, it just doesn't sound as good to me as my 214. I know it is a 714ce and not a 214 so it isn't going to sound like a 214.

I know the quality of sound from the 714ce would be considered by most people to be superior to my 214 but I still grab my 214 to play as my go to guitar and this beautiful 714ce mostly just sits in the case. My 214 is much louder. It just sounds tighter to me. It is even easier to play. Is this just me being used to my old 214? My ears don't lie to me. I like my 214 much better. I know that it's a matter of personal preference but as much as I try to play my 714ce and try to like it, I just don't.

Am I nuts? I know I should have known this before I left the store with the 714ce but in the store it sounded great but I didn't have my 214 with me for comparison. I guess the 214 just rings out more. Maybe more chimey to me. The 714ce has a warmer sound. I guess in the end I wanted a cutaway electric that sounded more like my 214. That 214 just seems part of me now. I have grown so much as a player with that particular guitar. I am thinking about selling the 714ce and trying to find something similar to my 214 in sound but cutaway electric. But before I do, is it possible that I need to give the 714ce some time to open up and I will like it better once it does? This is the second Taylor that I have bought after my 214 and I sold it too because it just didn't do it for me. The other one was a mahogany 2014 320.

The 714ce just doesn't have the punch that my 214 has. It just doesn't play as easy as my 214. It just doesn't have the volume that my 214 has. It is a shame that I am probably going to have to sell the 714ce and lose money on it after such a short time. Is there anybody else out there that has done the same as me? I feel silly that I have done this twice but this time was possibly a mistake with a lot more money at stake. I almost feel like I really only need one guitar. If I have one that sounds best to me then I am not sure why I would want to play one that doesn't sound as good as the other one other than it being a cutaway electric. How many people out there are just happy playing one guitar? Sorry to ramble. Thanks!

[pagedr]

Well...I haven't been around this forum for all that long, but based on what I've seen, I'm guessing a lot of people around here have experienced something similar.

I know it's happened to me a couple times. Guitar sounds INCREDIBLE in the store...get home with it, and after a week or so it's already starting to lose its luster. End up selling it a short time later at a slight loss. It can be like a haircut for me sometimes - it looks great at the barber shop, and then I get home and look in the mirror and wonder wtf I was thinking.

The 714 could open up if you give it more time, but it sounds like you're already pretty set on it not being "the one". Might just be that the 214 is your dream guitar and you don't need anything else! Probably not, I think we all wish we could be happy with just one guitar...would save a lot of money... But if I were you, I'd sell the 714, then take my 214 into the store and find something I think sounds even better.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by ctvolfan

I almost feel like I really only need one guitar. How many people out there are just happy playing one guitar?

It's OK. You're among friends now. You're not strange. Your feelings are normal. It's just that you're learning one of the most important lessons in life. Your assignment is to understand what that lesson is. Most of us fail at this. Good luck.

[Rev Roy]

Did you have a setup done on the 714ce? It can solve a lot of playability issues. Have you tried some different strings? A different pick? Cheap things you can try before giving up and taking the haircut...

[JeffreyAK]

Are they strung the same? New Taylors usually come strung with Elixir phosphor bronze nanowebs, which to my ears pretty much always sound mellower and "warmer" than other non-coated strings. You might spend a bit of money on new different strings (I like Martin SP phosphor bronze) before reaching a final conclusion on your 714ce.

[6L6]

I’ve been through a number of high end Taylor’s over the years.

They are now all gone but a pair of 110’s and a 210 remain. To me the bottom end Taylor’s are the best sounding instruments they make.

[ChalkLitIScream]

Welcome to the AGF.

As Rev Roy pointed out, there's still a few things you can do to tweak your sound. Different strings (trust me, finding the right string is as hard as finding the perfect guitar!) will have the most impact. After that, perhaps changing saddle material. If i were you though, give the 714 a try with some new strings. Nickel bronze has worked wonders for some.

To your trusty 214, that thing has been with your side for almost 13 years. No doubt it has aged well and opened up. It should blow any other new 300 series guitars out of the water. Looks like it even blows the 700's out too!

If you NEED a new guitar, I think that a guitar which complements (as opposed to competes with) your 214 may give you a satisfactory ending. Perhaps a nylon to go with the steel strings, or a x12 or x18 to go with the 214 body size? a 12 string or baritone perhaps? Different tonewood tastes?

You aren't alone in your ventures in finding the 'one'. Ill be doing the same soon. But perhaps, the one you've been looking for has been with you all along. (sounds like the end of a romance, I know)
All the best

[SprintBob]

Several things in my experience with new Taylors.

First, I think either you bond with the 714’s stock Elixir PB strings or you don’t. If you are not using Elixirs on your 214, you should put the same brand strings you are using on the 214 on the 714 and then compare. Personally, Elixirs don’t work for my ears.

You need to get the 714 setup. You should check the action at the nut/1st fret and at the 12th fret on your 214 and then confirm the neck relief and duplicate it on your 714. That’s another important data point. The last two new Taylors I got had for me high action at the nut/1st fret and I had a luthier file down the nut string slots a bit and that made a big difference. If the guitar is comfortable to play for you, it will probably sound good to you.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by ctvolfan

H
I know the quality of sound from the 714ce would be considered by most people to be superior to my 214 but I still grab my 214 to play as my go to guitar and this beautiful 714ce mostly just sits in the case. My 214 is much louder. It just sounds tighter to me. It is even easier to play. Is this just me being used to my old 214? My ears don't lie to me. I like my 214 much better. I guess the 214 just rings out more. Maybe more chimey to me. The 714ce has a warmer sound. I guess in the end I wanted a cutaway electric that sounded more like my 214.

Before you give up the ship and throw the 714 overboard I have a few thoughts...

First thought: STRINGS
If you're just using Elixir Nano lights because that's what Taylor recommends then you're cheating yourself. I have a 814ceDLX that just disappoints with Elixirs. It's the only acoustic I purchased sight unseen. I've tested all the Elixir gauges and found other brands that work so much better for that guitar. [It currently is a toss-up between GHS Signature Bronze True medium and Straight Up Strings medium tension.] Every individual guitar has its own characteristics and it is up to you the player to seek out the best of your guitar with the tone created with YOUR own hands. Obviously your 214 just fit that groove without doing much to coax it along. That's great. But obviously you're unhappy and may be just a string set away from being deliriously happy. Oh... In terms of ease of play, some of the sets have relatively low tensions for their gauges which makes it easier on the hands.

Have you tried different Elixir gauges? Have you tested the HD lights or the 12-56's? Other than Elixirs and based on your comments I'm going to recommend several string sets that I think would be a starting place.

1) GHS- Phosphor Bronze lights
2) GHS Signature Bronze (both Light and True Medium gauge- and Light with 13 and 17 upper strings)
3) DR Sunbeam 12-54 [The preferred string set for my '71 Martin D35]
4) DR Rares
4 Straight Up Strings (medium tension)
5) D'Addario Nickel Bronze

Each of these sets has different tonal properties that may or may not jive with your 714. If you buy them all it will cost less than $100. Play them for a few days, then try another set. If you're careful removing the strings, you can keep them and reinstall them subsequently to revisit them without having to buy additional sets... But you could do that too.

Second thought: TONERITE. I was lent one and was impressed enough with the initial treatment to buy my own. My Taylor 614ce (2011), after about 200 hours with the Tonerite had an amazing transformation. Before the Tonerite it was ok, but I longed for an 800 series guitar and bought one. I put my 614 up for sale. And then something surprising happened... It changed so radically that I could actually put Elixir strings on it and like them (a lot). My 614 is no longer for sale and while I previously would have traded up to a new 614 or 818 or 914... not any more. The difference was startling. It is important to note that three of my guitars have had many hours of the Tonerite process and all have improved, but not as drastically as the 614. You won't know until you try. As a new guitar it should open up at least marginally. . Again, only a $100 investment.

Third thought: Picks and your touch. Picks that sound great on your 214 may not be the best selection for your 714. It's a different animal and needs a different approach. What I am learning in my own playing is that to get the sounds that I want from my guitars I had/have to go to a much lighter touch (currently in the process of trying to make it habitual). With that I'm finding that I like different pick choices than previously including modifying some picks with speed bevels and other minor adjustments that seem to suit the situation.

One last thought... Nut size. I have to guess that your 214 has a 1 11/16" nut while your 714 has a 1 3/4" nut. There is no getting around it- you have to practice with it! I sort of felt that way too when I got my 614 with the 1 3/4" nut only previously having guitars with the narrower nut. At first I too found them more difficult to play (though a lot of guys really like the wider spacing). But once used to the wider nut I don't find my Taylors any more difficult or easier than my Martin, Epi or Yairis. You gotta take your 714 out of the case even if you think you (at this moment) like your 214 better.

Your preference of guitar ultimately may not change. But unless you can return your 714 at this date, what have you got to lose? I'll bet if you just take the 714 out of the case, find some strings and practice you'll change your mind in short order.

Good luck.

[skitoolong]

214 has a smaller nut IIRC.

They are great instruments

[lovgren]

I'd sell the 714, put an unobtrusive pickup in the 200 series so you don't ruin the aesthetic, and live without a cutaway.

I think it's very unlikely you'll ever like the 714, even with a setup, different strings, etc etc. Just sell it and enjoy your 200 series. Hold out for a good price on the 714 to minimize the loss.

[ahorsewithnonam]

And a 214 is not a 314.

[sabatini]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnonam

And a 214 is not a 314.

But, the 214 he has is solid spruce over solid sapele which is what they used to be. They were also made in El Cahon, CA. So, other than nut width , very close to a 314.

[Wade Hampton]

CT, what I recommend is that you simply not worry about it, not for now, anyway. There have been a number of times where I've gotten a new guitar (or mandolin, or banjo, or mountain dulcimer,) and while I can tell it's a good quality instrument, for whatever reason I don't immediately take to it.

But what has often happened is that after a while, I've come to appreciate what it has to offer.

A lot of what you're going through is simply a matter of familiarity. You've done a great deal of your developmental playing and learning on your older Taylor. The new one doesn't sound or play the same, because it doesn't respond to your right hand attack the same way as your old guitar.

Which is because it ISN'T your old guitar.

Now, it may be that you got a mediocre example of a 714CE. That can - and occasionally does - happen. But it's equally likely that you just haven't learned how to coax the tone out of it yet. It doesn't respond just like the old guitar, so part of your job as its new owner is to figure out how to modify your right hand attack to pull the best tone out of it.

Because that IS an issue with acoustic guitars. They work in a mechanical way where the energy of the strings vibrating gets transferred to the top. But one acoustic guitar top can easily be quite different from the next. Nothing about playing acoustic guitar is "one size fits all"; sometimes guitars act very differently from each other.

So my suggestion is that you woodshed and dedicate a certain percentage of your practice time working with your 714CE, trying to plumb the depths of its mysteries.

You know what? The more you do that, the better it will start to sound. Because you'll be subconsciously adapting your grip and where exactly between the bridge and the end of the fingerboard you strum or pick the strings. Because even something as seemingly minor as a quarter inch one direction or the other along a string can have a remarkable impact on how the guitar sounds. The problem might just be that this new guitar has a different "sweet spot" where it sounds its best than your old one's sweet spot.

Since you've spent the money, you owe it to yourself and to the guitar to dig a little deeper and consider these aspects of technique that you've possibly never considered before.

As for how well the guitar plays, that's easy. If you bought the guitar locally, take it and your old Taylor to the shop and tell them you want the new one to play as easily as the old one. If you bought it there, the setup might well be free.

If you didn't buy it there, pay their shop charge and get the new guitar dialed in. That might make a major difference in playability.

So, in short, before you go jettisoning your new Taylor guitar, get it set up for your playing style, experiment with string brands and different string alloys, and give yourself a chance to get used to it. In other words, teach yourself to play to its strengths.

Because not every acoustic guitar will respond exactly the same way. Sometimes to get the best out of them we have to modify how we play a little bit.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Luckymud]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

CT, what I recommend is that you simply not worry about it, not for now, anyway. There have been a number of times where I've gotten a new guitar (or mandolin, or banjo, or mountain dulcimer,) and while I can tell it's a good quality instrument, for whatever reason I don't immediately take to it.

But what has often happened is that after a while, I've come to appreciate what it has to offer.

A lot of what you're going through is simply a matter of familiarity. You've done a great deal of your developmental playing and learning on your older Taylor. The new one doesn't sound or play the same, because it doesn't respond to your right hand attack the same way as your old guitar.

Which is because it ISN'T your old guitar.

Now, it may be that you got a mediocre example of a 714CE. That can - and occasionally does - happen. But it's equally likely that you just haven't learned how to coax the tone out of it yet. It doesn't respond just like the old guitar, so part of your job as its new owner is to figure out how to modify your right hand attack to pull the best tone out of it.

Because that IS an issue with acoustic guitars. They work in a mechanical way where the energy of the strings vibrating gets transferred to the top. But one acoustic guitar top can easily be quite different from the next. Nothing about playing acoustic guitar is "one size fits all"; sometimes guitars act very differently from each other.

So my suggestion is that you woodshed and dedicate a certain percentage of your practice time working with your 714CE, trying to plumb the depths of its mysteries.

You know what? The more you do that, the better it will start to sound. Because you'll be subconsciously adapting your grip and where exactly between the bridge and the end of the fingerboard you strum or pick the strings. Because even something as seemingly minor as a quarter inch one direction or the other along a string can have a remarkable impact on how the guitar sounds. The problem might just be that this new guitar has a different "sweet spot" where it sounds its best than your old one's sweet spot.

Since you've spent the money, you owe it to yourself and to the guitar to dig a little deeper and consider these aspects of technique that you've possibly never considered before.

As for how well the guitar plays, that's easy. If you bought the guitar locally, take it and your old Taylor to the shop and tell them you want the new one to play as easily as the old one. If you bought it there, the setup might well be free.

If you didn't buy it there, pay their shop charge and get the new guitar dialed in. That might make a major difference in playability.

So, in short, before you go jettisoning your new Taylor guitar, get it set up for your playing style, experiment with string brands and different string alloys, and give yourself a chance to get used to it. In other words, teach yourself to play to its strengths.

Because not every acoustic guitar will respond exactly the same way. Sometimes to get the best out of them we have to modify how we play a little bit.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

I would just like to say that I love this reply.