Swing and a miss (a story of used purchase and return)

[wxfloyd]

Well I thought I had it. I thought I had the guitar I was searching for, at a price I could (somewhat) afford.

Last week I tried out a couple of Collings, a D1 and D2H. I really liked the D1, but knew I just couldn't afford a new one.
I searched around on Reverb and found a used 2011 D1 for a decent price. I threw out an offer, and was countered with an offer that I felt was reasonable.

It was listed as very good condition and the seller (an AGF sponser, who I won't name at this time as the return process is still ongoing) listed any blemishes/issues. Before I purchased, I asked several questions regarding condition of the guitar (including any signs of a possible neck reset needed in the near future) and case. All questions were answered to my satisfaction.

I received it over the weekend. I let it sit in the box to make sure it was acclimated after the journey from the midwest to Colorado.
The first thing I noticed when I pulled it out of the box was that one of the feet on bottom of the case was missing, and looked like it had been ripped out at some point (some of the plywood was splintered and sticking out of the hole). That was red flag number 1.

Then when I finally got the guitar out, I noticed two things right away. First, there was a small dent in the top, that looked like it just barely broke through the finish. There were a few other small minor dents throughout the top and back, but those were really nothing to worry about. But this one was one I felt should have been disclosed. The second thing I noticed was that the fret ends were just starting to poke out, but enough to lift up the finish along the edges of the fretboard (both sides).

At this point I was starting to get a little concerned about my purchase. What finally made me decide to return it was a check of the neck/fretboard against the bridge with a straight edge. I checked, and the straight edge was hitting the front of the bridge by about 2-3mm down from the top edge. That was just too far for my comfort.

I had already pushed my budget to get this guitar, and I wasn't about to already start worrying about getting a neck reset done. Maybe I was expecting more than I should have for a guitar listed in very good condition. But my gut feeling was that these issues were more than I was comfortable with for what I paid. This was by far the most I had ever spent on a single instrument.

I was bummed to say the least. I was really excited about this guitar. But to the credit of the seller, they've been very quick with communication (even on Sunday), and already provided me with a return shipping label to send it back. Now I'm not necessarily saying that the seller misrepresented the condition of the guitar, but I was a little bothered that I asked specifically about certain things, and turned out those things weren't exactly accurate.

Hopefully everything goes smoothly with the return process. They offered to exchange it for another guitar. They do have a couple other used Collings D1's, but at this point I'm wary of the condition of those as well.
Perhaps I need to go back to my original plan of a Martin D-18 or M-36 (new with warranty). I had really high hopes for the Collings as they're built so well and have the bolt on neck for easier neck resets (something I've been somewhat concerned with on Martins, perhaps illogically )

Sorry for the extremely long post. I just had to let off some steam.

[Speedwagon]

I am sorry for your misfortune. Collings are wonderful guitars and it is possible the seller’s assessment was accurate according to what they consider to be imperfections or mars. I don’t know - just trying to give them the benefit of doubt.

I can attest to the “awesomeness” of the Martin D-18. It is a great guitar. I sold mine only because my right shoulder did not enjoy it as much as my ears did. I picked up a 000-18 and my shoulder is much happier. I think either the D-18 or M-36 will be a wonderful guitar for you.
The bonus of buying either new is you have the warranty and it will be pristine. Neck reset? You should be okay for a very long time as long as you take care of it properly.

[L20A]

You sound like me.
I have only purchased a couple of guitars that were used.

One, A beautiful Guild F-50R had some light finish cracks that the seller didn't disclose. It also had a couple of places where the finish on the binding was chipped off.

Neither of these issues affected the play or sound but it still bothered me when the guitar was listed as mint.

I sold it and replaced it with a real mint Guild D-55.
I still have that one and enjoy it a lot.

I'm just not a MOJO kind of guy.

[Goodallboy]

This issue has nothing to do with Collings guitars, just the one you first received, and is in no way indicative of a problem to be concerned with as far as the brand. The seller is another issue. I might be wary there myself. It’s not fun to have an experience like yours.

I would place Collings a notch above Martin, but that’s merely my experience and taste preferences.

Good hunting, and better luck next time. I don’t know where you live but playing before you buy eliminates immediate disappointment.

[Speedwagon]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

This issue has nothing to do with Collings guitars, just the one you first received, and is in no way indicative of a problem to be concerned with as far as the brand. The seller is another issue. I might be wary there myself. It’s not fun to have an experience like yours.



I would place Collings a notch above Martin, but that’s merely my experience and taste preferences.



Good hunting, and better luck next time. I don’t know where you live but playing before you buy eliminates immediate disappointment.

Agree 100%.

[wxfloyd]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

This issue has nothing to do with Collings guitars, just the one you first received, and is in no way indicative of a problem to be concerned with as far as the brand. The seller is another issue. I might be wary there myself. It’s not fun to have an experience like yours.

I would place Collings a notch above Martin, but that’s merely my experience and taste preferences.

Good hunting, and better luck next time. I don’t know where you live but playing before you buy eliminates immediate disappointment.

Nope, nothing against Collings at all. The seller is being very cooperative with the whole thing so far. It helps that they're a reputable shop, I'm sure.

And I'll agree with you on your standing on Collings vs. Martin. I know they don't sound the same, but darn they sound good!

[archerscreek]

I was in the market for another guitar for the past year and looked at hundreds upon hundreds of used guitars online in all of the forums, markets, classifieds, known dealers, etc. that one can imagine. I targeted several guitars over this time and always requested additional photos to confirm condition.

Regardless of whether it’s from a lack of honesty, pure delusion, or careless inspection, the representation of a guitar’s condition is rarely accurate when made by an online seller. Apparently, mint condition allows for 35-40 belt buckle scratches on the back and 4-5 gouges on the neck while excellent allows for the bridge to be lifting up and binding separating from the sides. Very good means there will be three cracks in the top and perhaps a mouse nesting inside the body. Good means the frets are worn down to the wood, the neck is cracking at the installed strap button, and the hardshell case it comes with is so beat up it’s essentially a softshell case now.

My advice, be an extremely cautious buyer and keep saving money. You’ll eventually have enough money to buy a new one, even if it takes a year or more. You won’t regret waiting.

[Speedwagon]

Originally Posted by archerscreek

I was in the market for another guitar for the past year and looked at hundreds upon hundreds of used guitars online in all of the forums, markets, classifieds, known dealers, etc. that one can imagine. I targeted several guitars over this time and always requested additional photos to confirm condition.



Regardless of whether it’s from a lack of honesty, pure delusion, or careless inspection, the representation of a guitar’s condition is rarely accurate when made by an online seller. Apparently, mint condition allows for 35-40 belt buckle scratches on the back and 4-5 gouges on the neck while excellent allows for the bridge to be lifting up and binding separating from the sides. Very good means there will be three cracks in the top and perhaps a mouse nesting inside the body. Good means the frets are worn down to the wood, the neck is cracking at the installed strap button, and the hardshell case it comes with is so beat up it’s essentially a softshell case now.



My advice, be an extremely cautious buyer and keep saving money. You’ll eventually have enough money to buy a new one, even if it takes a year or more. You won’t regret waiting.

The best post thus far!

[heavy_picker]

From the description you gave of the Collings guitar it sounds like a typical used guitar that has been played. I don't know about if it needed a neck reset since you didn't mention the height of the action. To me it sounds like nothing was really wrong with the guitar.
Your expectations seem to high for a used instrument. You never talked about the tone or play ability of the instrument. Are you looking for a guitar to play or a museum piece to stare at in a glass case. I think you would be better off buying a new guitar in person, so you can visually inspect it.
I once purchased a used vintage guitar that needed a neck rest, fret job, new bridge and a lot of braces reglued, but I bought it in person and saw all the problems. I'm happy I did, but I paid a fair price for the condition it was in.

Good luck finding your dream guitar.

You maybe have overreacted. Collings have bolt-on necks, right? Isn't it pretty much a piece of cake to shim them? You're going to have to give up something when not buying new. If you want perfect, you just have to shell out "new" money.

On the other hand, sellers should stop over using the "mint" description. They rarely are. Even if I am selling a guitar that really is mint, I don't say that, because it's gotten to the point where no one believes it anyway.

I just bought a guitar for half what it costs new. It has some fret wear on the first three frets under the E and B string. It's minor: a dressing might be needed soon, but I don't feel or notice it when playing now. The saddle is notched and too low: I had to make a new one that stood up taller so I could take more relief out of the neck. The seller didn't mention these two items. I gave him 4 out of 5 stars for the accuracy of description because of it, but I didn't even mention it to him because it's used; some sort of "use" was obviously going to be evident.

[Speedwagon]

Originally Posted by heavy_picker

From the description you gave of the Collings guitar it sounds like a typical used guitar that has been played. I don't know about if it needed a neck reset since you didn't mention the height of the action. To me it sounds like nothing was really wrong with the guitar.

Your expectations seem to high for a used instrument. You never talked about the tone or play ability of the instrument. Are you looking for a guitar to play or a museum piece to stare at in a glass case. I think you would be better off buying a new guitar in person, so you can visually inspect it.

I once purchased a used vintage guitar that needed a neck rest, fret job, new bridge and a lot of braces reglued, but I bought it in person and saw all the problems. I'm happy I did, but I paid a fair price for the condition it was in.



Good luck finding your dream guitar.

I think your final full paragraph tells the entire story and illustrates the difference. You saw what you were getting and paid for a known, to you, commodity. The OP trusted the evaluation of the seller and, admittedly, stretched his budget to make the purchase. Maybe that used Collings, at $1200, was a great guitar and the OP would have accepted it. Maybe he paid $2000+ for it and, at that price, its condition was not acceptable. I will bet that you would not have purchased the used guitar you referenced if it were at a higher price point.

[Athens]

Glad to hear that they're working with you. I hate to sound this way, but this is the kind of thing that's pushed me to never buying an instrument that I haven't played.

[aknow]

Originally Posted by archerscreek

I was in the market for another guitar for the past year and looked at hundreds upon hundreds of used guitars online in all of the forums, markets, classifieds, known dealers, etc. that one can imagine. I targeted several guitars over this time and always requested additional photos to confirm condition.

Regardless of whether it’s from a lack of honesty, pure delusion, or careless inspection, the representation of a guitar’s condition is rarely accurate when made by an online seller. Apparently, mint condition allows for 35-40 belt buckle scratches on the back and 4-5 gouges on the neck while excellent allows for the bridge to be lifting up and binding separating from the sides. Very good means there will be three cracks in the top and perhaps a mouse nesting inside the body. Good means the frets are worn down to the wood, the neck is cracking at the installed strap button, and the hardshell case it comes with is so beat up it’s essentially a softshell case now.

My advice, be an extremely cautious buyer and keep saving money. You’ll eventually have enough money to buy a new one, even if it takes a year or more. You won’t regret waiting.

I've never seen this much product misrepresentation in any industry. The last 3 guitars I tried to buy through reverb were all completely misrepresented. All were returned, (a hassle). The 4th try at a purchase, the seller agreed to my offer, then emailed me that his price was too low. Ignorance and abuse abounds. Don't buy a used guitar unless you can return it. Reputable guitar shops usually won't pull this in person, but online is cowboys and indians, again.

[Speedwagon]

Originally Posted by aknow

I've never seen this much product misrepresentation in any industry. The last 3 guitars I tried to buy through reverb were all completely misrepresented. All were returned, (a hassle). The 4th try at a purchase, the seller agreed to my offer, then emailed me that his price was too low. Ignorance and abuse abounds. Don't buy a used guitar unless you can return it. Reputable guitar shops usually won't pull this in person, but online is cowboys and indians, again.

Very true. I have purchased used guitars here and/or made trades here. I always check the username and posting history before getting too deep into the dialogue. Otherwise, I just purchase new.

[guitar12]

Originally Posted by Frozen Rat

You maybe have overreacted. Collings have bolt-on necks, right? Isn't it pretty much a piece of cake to shim them? You're going to have to give up something when not buying new. If you want perfect, you just have to shell out "new" money.

You got to be kidding right? I wouldn't care if it was a Collings or an Esteban, if I received a guitar that needed that level of work it would be on it's way back that very same day.

To the OP: I think that you did the right thing in returning it. There are a lot of 'experts' here with opinions but the bottom line is that you received an item that was not as described, even after asking specific questions, and it was from a retailer that allowed returns, so back it goes.

Rob