EML Picks...Outstanding

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Hinto

HHP, now do these very thick picks work for regular strumming? I seem to struggle with anything thicker than 1 mm, but I very possibly have poor technique!

They will take some getting used to. I wouldn't start super thick, 1.5mm is a good start point. I would also suggest that if you want to try it, commit yourself to using it exclusively for two weeks. No "running home to mama" backsliding to the thinner pick comfort zone.

At the end of the two weeks, go back and compare them. Once you've acclimated to the thicker pick you will probably find that that you are getting better tone and volume with less right hand effort yielding great dynamic control.

Note that when I am talking about thick picks, I am assuming you either get one with a full edge bevel applied by the maker or you put it on yourself before you start. For someone doing mostly strumming, a rounder point can also help. If you would like, I can send you a couple of 1.26 Clayton Celluloid that have been reshaped and beveled. I have a million of them around and you could try them out before committing to one of the premium models. Just PM me an address if you would like them.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Hinto

HHP, now do these very thick picks work for regular strumming? I seem to struggle with anything thicker than 1 mm, but I very possibly have poor technique!

Hinto, I would concur with HHP's advice here, although I hate agreeing with the guy (he is right more than me, and this bothers me).

If you're used to 1.0 mm, you would like to gradually step up your thicknesses. I'd suggest maybe smaller steps, either 1.15 or 1.25 mm, then jump up to 1.50 mm, then 2.0 mm, etc., in increments of .50 mm. It WILL take some getting used to, but it opens up a whole range of possibilities to your playing. First is accuracy, since by eliminating flex in a pick the point will not move much at all and can come back to zero position much quicker. And it is MUCH easier to make a thick pick sound like a thin pick vs the opposite.

As for 4.0 mm, that's a little extreme for most players. When I want that, I use a canoe.

memmer

[Hinto]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to head down to the local shop to see what they have. Before I order a 'fancy' pick I'll try a cheaper one first.

[BrunoBlack]

I purchased 2 EML large triangle picks: a 1.5mm Casein and a 1.5mm PEEK. I have played them for a few days now and here are my initial impressions. These picks are superbly made and are simply great!

The Casein is gorgeous with a beautiful color and a fantastic finish. The bevels are cut perfectly for my style and attack. The Casein produces a terrific warm tone, that reminds me of melted chocolate (for the lack of any sensible descriptors here.) The pick slides smoothly off the strings with absolutely no pick noise. The pick has good grip. I find the tone produced is very fine, but I have to admit, I prefer a slightly less blended tone. After much experimenting, I have played and enjoyed TAD BC picks for a long time, so I have developed a tonal relationship with my BC picks. I would imagine if I put my BC picks aside and played this Casein pick exclusively, I would develop an ear for these. However, I do like the way my BC picks sound and play very much and I don't have much incentive to put them aside. In general, I find BC picks provide a little more note clarity, separation and volume that allows me to control my output over a broader range and overall is more to my liking. So, the Casein gets a big thumbs-up from me. I will continue to experiment with this one and who knows, maybe I'll develop a stronger attraction to them and put the BC picks aside.

The PEEK is also a terrific product, but didn't impress me as much as the Casein. First of all, it has a bland color (I know, so what?), doesn't slide off the strings as smoothly and I find it moves a bit in my hand. The tone produced is very good, perhaps a little closer to the BC tone, but it's not an equal to my ear. I also find there is a slight pick noise produced when I strike the strings. Overall, it seems rigid sounding. I believe, the pick noise might be eliminated once I adapted to a slightly different attack. I did find the PEEK does produce a slightly more blended tone when compared to BC and as I mentioned previously, I prefer the note clarity, separation and volume I find with the BC picks. The bevels on this pick are also perfect for my taste. I found the PEEK pick to be an outstanding product, but probably not for me.

I'll offer one last comment. I play fingerstyle 50% of the time and I find the BC picks sound much more like the tone produced by my fingers. I like this consistency in sound production. EML makes some wonderful picks and encourage other players to give them a try.

EDIT: I should mention that I own/play TAD BC 40(1mm), 60(1.5mm) and 80(2.0mm). For this comparison I used TAD 60. However, truth be known, I prefer TAD 40, so that tells you something about my preference.

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by Haasome

The Casein is gorgeous with a beautiful color and a fantastic finish. The bevels are cut perfectly for my style and attack. The Casein produces a terrific warm tone, that reminds me of melted chocolate (for the lack of any sensible descriptors here.) The pick slides smoothly off the strings with absolutely no pick noise. The pick has good grip. I find the tone produced is very fine, but I have to admit, I prefer a slightly less blended tone.

Thank you for the review. Can you explain what you mean by "blended" tone? High overtone content, perhaps?

I'm expecting an EML casein teardrop pick in a couple days and anxiously looking forward to giving it a run.

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by Bluemonk

Thank you for the review. Can you explain what you mean by "blended" tone? High overtone content, perhaps?

I'm expecting an EML casein teardrop pick in a couple days and anxiously looking forward to giving it a run.

Or do you mean less individual note clarity as you strum across the strings?

(If it's the above, I would have thought that was completely a function of the guitar itself.)

[Mark E]

I ordered a Standard Pointed Casein pick a few days ago. Haven't heard when it's shipping yet. Looking forward to trying it out.

[HHP]

Still very pleased with mine. The 4mm is great for mandolin. the thickness keeps it from hanging up between the strings. My tremolo technique is getting almost acceptable. Hoping to hit "adequate" in the near future.

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by Bluemonk

Or do you mean less individual note clarity as you strum across the strings?

(If it's the above, I would have thought that was completely a function of the guitar itself.)

This part of your statement is what I hear - sort of. The sound produced is warm, slightly subdued (in comparison) and as a result each string has less of an individual presence in the sound profile. This is not a bad quality. I see it as an individual preference. I will say that after playing (my Goodall in particular) with the EML for a couple of hours, switching directly to a BC made the guitar sound pronounced & loud with the same attack. I feel I am able to access a broader range of textures and tones with my BC picks. But as I said, I have a long history using BC picks. The EML Casein picks are really quite nice indeed. They have a soft, warm “velvet” quality. I’m not ruling them out, which is saying a lot because I love my BC picks.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Haasome

I purchased 2 EML large triangle picks: a 1.5mm Casein and a 1.5mm PEEK. I have played them for a few days now and here are my initial impressions. These picks are superbly made and are simply great!

The Casein is gorgeous with a beautiful color and a fantastic finish. The bevels are cut perfectly for my style and attack. The Casein produces a terrific warm tone, that reminds me of melted chocolate (for the lack of any sensible descriptors here.) The pick slides smoothly off the strings with absolutely no pick noise. The pick has good grip. I find the tone produced is very fine, but I have to admit, I prefer a slightly less blended tone. After much experimenting, I have played and enjoyed TAD BC picks for a long time, so I have developed a tonal relationship with my BC picks. I would imagine if I put my BC picks aside and played this Casein pick exclusively, I would develop an ear for these. However, I do like the way my BC picks sound and play very much and I don't have much incentive to put them aside. In general, I find BC picks provide a little more note clarity, separation and volume that allows me to control my output over a broader range and overall is more to my liking. So, the Casein gets a big thumbs-up from me. I will continue to experiment with this one and who knows, maybe I'll develop a stronger attraction to them and put the BC picks aside.

The PEEK is also a terrific product, but didn't impress me as much as the Casein. First of all, it has a bland color (I know, so what?), doesn't slide off the strings as smoothly and I find it moves a bit in my hand. The tone produced is very good, perhaps a little closer to the BC tone, but it's not an equal to my ear. I also find there is a slight pick noise produced when I strike the strings. Overall, it seems rigid sounding. I believe, the pick noise might be eliminated once I adapted to a slightly different attack. I did find the PEEK does produce a slightly more blended tone when compared to BC and as I mentioned previously, I prefer the note clarity, separation and volume I find with the BC picks. The bevels on this pick are also perfect for my taste. I found the PEEK pick to be an outstanding product, but probably not for me.

I'll offer one last comment. I play fingerstyle 50% of the time and I find the BC picks sound much more like the tone produced by my fingers. I like this consistency in sound production. EML makes some wonderful picks and encourage other players to give them a try.

EDIT: I should mention that I own/play TAD BC 40(1mm), 60(1.5mm) and 80(2.0mm). For this comparison I used TAD 60. However, truth be known, I prefer TAD 40, so that tells you something about my preference.

The Casein material is pretty remarkable in tone. I don't think we'll ever find any man-made material that more closely replicates the tone and feel of genuine tortoise. However, on the BC material and the PEEK that he offers, many heavy flatpickers will prefer these to Casein. They are extremely durable, almost unbreakable, and also tend to have more punch in the high end and midrange. If, for instance, you're playing acoustic guitar leads in a Bluegrass ensemble situation, you'll often want that extra bite to cut through the mix. This is especially true if there is a banjo within a thousand yards. AND industrial plastics wear much more slowly than Casein.

As for my personal playing, I love them all but I always reach for the Casein first. But I'm a solo player mostly, directly into a mic if at all possible, and that's a particular playing situation where the tone of the Casein really shines through.

Way to go, Eric,

scott memmer

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

The Casein material is pretty remarkable in tone. I don't think we'll ever find any man-made material that more closely replicates the tone and feel of genuine tortoise. However, on the BC material and the PEEK that he offers, many heavy flatpickers will prefer these to Casein. They are extremely durable, almost unbreakable, and also tend to have more punch in the high end and midrange. If, for instance, you're playing acoustic guitar leads in a Bluegrass ensemble situation, you'll often want that extra bite to cut through the mix. This is especially true if there is a banjo within a thousand yards. AND industrial plastics wear much more slowly than Casein.

As for my personal playing, I love them all but I always reach for the Casein first. But I'm a solo player mostly, directly into a mic if at all possible, and that's a particular playing situation where the tone of the Casein really shines through.

Way to go, Eric,

scott memmer

I wouldn't underestimate the power and punch you can get from casein. I was playing tonight with your 3.5mm's and the EML 2.5mm's and was getting prodigious volume. Granted, these are thicker than most would use but I feel like I can be heard over anything but maybe a banjo or a resonator. Thing that surprises me is I don't feel like I am playing that hard and the casein picks tend to retain the tone over the whole dynamic range from soft to very loud.

And, the guitar was a cedar/rosewood mini jumbo you wouldn't think of as a powerhouse.

Like to try thicker Vespal, but I guess a 4mm Vespal would cost the same as the national debt of Ecuador.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by HHP

I wouldn't underestimate the power and punch you can get from casein. I was playing tonight with your 3.5mm's and the EML 2.5mm's and was getting prodigious volume. Granted, these are thicker than most would use but I feel like I can be heard over anything but maybe a banjo or a resonator. Thing that surprises me is I don't feel like I am playing that hard and the casein picks tend to retain the tone over the whole dynamic range from soft to very loud.

And, the guitar was a cedar/rosewood mini jumbo you wouldn't think of as a powerhouse.

Like to try thicker Vespal, but I guess a 4mm Vespal would cost the same as the national debt of Ecuador.

HHP, I probably didn't convey my thoughts as clearly as I might have.

Like you, to me casein is the ultimate material for all-around great tone and performance. In fact, I usually just refer to it as the "tone-chaser's" material. Yes, folks, it's that good, and if you've never played it you really owe it to yourself to check it out. Amazing stuff.

That said, the point I was trying to make before was related to other players, not myself.

I've been lucky the last few years to become acquainted with literally hundreds of superb players, almost all of them better players than me, some of them name players with mad skills. At the top of that pyramid -- let's say the top 5% -- these are overwhelmingly Vespel players, not casein. I was shocked when I first discovered this. One guy I know, an extremely hot player who toured for many years with one of the most renown Bluegrass units in the business, plays HEAVY gauge strings. Really? I don't know anyone who even OWNS heavy gauge strings, let alone plays them. He is a straight Vespel player. You mentioned volume, HHP, but I was referring to treble response -- brightness -- not output. The brown material, as reported to me time and again by these players, has more bite at the top end, which is why they like it, maybe even need it, when playing ensemble Bluegrass. So don't kill the messenger; I'm just reporting what they reported.

I'm sorry to play cute with names, folks. Some of these situations are under negotiation, so I have to remain tight-lipped.

My three cents,
scott

[EMLPicks]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

HHP, I probably didn't convey my thoughts as clearly as I might have.

Like you, to me casein is the ultimate material for all-around great tone and performance. In fact, I usually just refer to it as the "tone-chaser's" material. Yes, folks, it's that good, and if you've never played it you really owe it to yourself to check it out. Amazing stuff.

That said, the point I was trying to make before was related to other players, not myself.

I've been lucky the last few years to become acquainted with literally hundreds of superb players, almost all of them better players than me, some of them name players with mad skills. At the top of that pyramid -- let's say the top 5% -- these are overwhelmingly Vespel players, not casein. I was shocked when I first discovered this. One guy I know, an extremely hot player who toured for many years with one of the most renown Bluegrass units in the business, plays HEAVY gauge strings. Really? I don't know anyone who even OWNS heavy gauge strings, let alone plays them. He is a straight Vespel player. You mentioned volume, HHP, but I was referring to treble response -- brightness -- not output. The brown material, as reported to me time and again by these players, has more bite at the top end, which is why they like it, maybe even need it, when playing ensemble Bluegrass. So don't kill the messenger; I'm just reporting what they reported.

I'm sorry to play cute with names, folks. Some of these situations are under negotiation, so I have to remain tight-lipped.

My three cents,
scott

It probably depends on who you know. In gypsy jazz for instance, by far one of the most popular material choices for picks is the casein option. Others of course are Wegen's material and naturally occurring materials like shell, horn, etc

[oxygenman]

Thanks for this, Harry. I am about to order from both Charmed Life and EML. I have learned a lot about picks from your posts.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by oxygenman

Thanks for this, Harry. I am about to order from both Charmed Life and EML. I have learned a lot about picks from your posts.

Good choices. Both are about as good as you can get.