Why not use a mini-jack endpin? No reaming required!

[David MacNeill]

I've been thinking about the ubiquitous 1/4" endpin jack modification that permanently alter so many guitars. Why has no one come out with a mini-jack solution that would simply replace the existing wooden endpin on most guitars? There is no real reason why it HAS to be 1/4". There are much smaller jacks and plugs available that are just as reliable.

If a jack could not be found that is small enough to work this way, why not market a replacement endpin that simply has a hole drilled through it to allow the cord to come through? You could attach the cord into a specially made strap with a sheathed jack built in. Basically, you'd plug in your strap instead of your guitar.

When you want your guitar back to it's original, unmodified state, just pull out the pin and the clip-on pickup/mic assembly, reinsert the original ebony pin, and you're done.

[cpmusic]

The idea of using a smaller jack came up several months ago at the AG magazine forum, and as I recall, the consensus was that both the jack and cable would be too weak. Also, I suspect that the mini-jack would pull out too easily.

Running a cable through a special endpin is a possibility, but it would have to be pretty thin, and that would make it prone to the same problems as a mini-jack cable. Plus, you'd have a cable hanging out the end of the guitar even when you weren't plugged in.

[bnjp]

How bout a wireless system built into the guitar? Wifi?...Bluetooth? Never thought of it before but I wonder if it'd be possible do an entire sound system built sort of like a wireless computer network. That would be KEWL. You turn on your guitar and it recognizes the wireless signal and logs you on to a channel on the board.

[VinceM]

Dave Enke (of PUTW) has recommended this mini-jack:

http://www.tapastring.com/vintagejack.htm

He said that this setup is the first of this type he's seen that's robust enough.

[ronmac]

I can see a couple of issues with moving to a smaller end pin jack connector:

1) Physical integrity

2) Another "standard" to be able to choose from

Larrivee, Garrison and Taylor (there may be others I am not aware of) offer a suitable solution for this problem. They now pre-drill the end block to accomodate a standard 15/32 end pin jack. If you ever remove the electronics all you have to do is pop in the original equipment end strap holder.

No need to reinvent the wheel (although I understand if you shave the spokes it will sound nicer as it turns!).

[Bob Womack]

The 1/8" plug was the first plug used for acoustic pickups. It was a disaster for all the reasons listed above. They quickly changed over to 1/4" to end the heartache with this non-professional connector standard.

Bob

[ljguitar]

Hi David...
I still have pieces of a couple 1/8'' jacks which were the first Barcus Barry attempts. They were unreliable, corroded easily, pulled out with minimal pressure (while playing), bent internally and had to be removed to ''firm up'' the electrical connection, and failed at an alarming rate.

We had to custom build the cables most of the time.

Also a failure were the XLR connectors on acoustic guitars (can you say ''crack repairs''? I knew you could).

[Doc]

What's so horribly objectionable about a 1/4" jack in the first place as long as there are straps that fit it? If Speakon connectors were better still, would you not want them?

From an engineering point of view, 1/8" won't cut it. It's that simple!

Doc

[drive-south]

The original sentiment was that no one wants to permanently modify their guitars by drilling out the endpin to accept the end-pin jack. There is no way to restore it to the original end-pin if you elect to do so down the road. I have 6 acoustics that I have done this mod to and I crink every time. I just recently installed a K&K in my Gibson Advanced Jumbo and it killed me to have to remove the vintage style end-pin and drill out the end block for the 1/4" jack. Granted I bought the guitar to play, but it would be nice to keep a vintage-style guitar original.

drive-south

[jhchang]

Originally Posted by Doc

What's so horribly objectionable about a 1/4" jack in the first place as long as there are straps that fit it? If Speakon connectors were better still, would you not want them?

From an engineering point of view, 1/8" won't cut it. It's that simple!

Doc

If you've never installed a PU w/ endpin jack yourself, you wouldn't know what it's all about...

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

The 1/8" plug was the first plug used for acoustic pickups. It was a disaster for all the reasons listed above. They quickly changed over to 1/4" to end the heartache with this non-professional connector standard.

Bob

I can personally relate to this Bob...haunting thoughts of Barcus Berry

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by drive-south

The original sentiment was that no one wants to permanently modify their guitars by drilling out the endpin to accept the end-pin jack. There is no way to restore it to the original end-pin if you elect to do so down the road.

Hi DS...
Not precisely the case...there are endpins made which will fit the hole left after removing an pickup endpin jack assembly, thus restoring it to the look of an original endpin. And Taylor's endpin from the factory when removed is already made to accept an electronic assembly.

Actually, I think David's original point was it would be nice to be restore the original look by creating an electronic end assembly or modification which would not enlarge the hole. But he's neglected a very select group of players (and collectors)...those who believe adding an endpin in the first place permanently alters the guitar's original state.

These are the true purists. They also eschew a strap pin on the heel of the neck (or anywhere else). I've played many guitars with no endpin &/or strap pin. This is the way my luthier builds & ships guitars unless otherwise specified by the client.

These are the players who don't want holes of any kind added to their instruments. For them, there are few times they play these instruments publicly through PAs, and if they do, it's a mic or nothing. Often they disdain the use of electronics altogether.

I've eavesdropped on some interesting conversations backstage by some bluegrass purists who operate without electronics when an ''electronically equipped band'' is on stage. They were not saying edifying things about their fellow musicians.

Functional, or art, or both...
While it would be interesting to own an instrument that nobody but me, or those who visit my home at times I have it out, ever see or enjoy, I'm not sure that would work for me. Never really appreciated beauty that was secreted away.

And to imagine trying to play acoustic guitar in an aggressive musical environment wouldn’t work for many of us.

I've had permanent alterations done to many guitars, including marker dots on the neck binding so I can find frets up the neck more easily, slightly oversized compensated bone saddles/nuts added for tone and intonation improvements, and slotless bridge pins added.

Recently I had to have my luthier take 4000 grit then 2000 grit sandpaper to the back of the neck of a guitar which had a glossy finish which ''squeaked'' when my thumb moved at all after anchoring it for barre chords, or certain chord voicings. I'm sure that permanently altered the original luthier's design somewhat.

Each of these permanently alters an instrument...functionally for the better, one would hope. When a luthier fills the slot of a bridge and recuts & levels the saddle slot, hasn't he permanently altered the original state of the instrument? He may have, but the new saddle will fit (and sound) better.

I've worn out tuners and replaced them with new ones which were either better, or more functional, than the originals. Two of my main acoustic guitars have locking tuner assemblies for more efficient string changes.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by jhchang

If you've never installed a PU w/ endpin jack yourself, you wouldn't know what it's all about...

I've done in excess of thirty of them.

I can't share trade secrets, but if you use the right fixtures, it's cake.

Peace,

Doc

[drive-south]

Here's the ideal setup. Scroll down to the second photo.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Fun/...sideshow1.html


As I recall, the endpin on my Gibson AJ actually screws into the heel using a small 1/4-20 screw, so there is no way to avoid drilling that type of endpin for a jack.

I'm thinking of adding a pickup to my Gibson DM33 Dobro. This is a metal-bodied Dobro. Inside the body at the endpin there is a wooden truss that blocks access to the end-pin completely, so there is no way to use an end-pin jack on this puppy.
I'm thinking of actually attaching a jack to one of the f-holes. I've got an old DeArmond pickup that I'd like to use. Another instrument I hate to modify.

I've been thinking of starting a new topic to discuss the trend in bluegrass of using a single mic for the entire band. I've seen Del McCoury's band do it as well as a few other blue-grass bands such as Uncle Earl. It works as long as you don't have drums and all the instruments in the band are balanced as far as volume. I discussed this with a guitar tech friend of mine and he says the mic to use is made by Audio Technica. You can't use just any large condensor. And forget monitors.

drive-south

drive-south

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by drive-south

...As I recall, the endpin on my Gibson AJ actually screws into the heel using a small 1/4-20 screw, so there is no way to avoid drilling that type of endpin for a jack.

Hi DS...
I have seen a luthier mount a small reinforcing block inside the ''side'' of a guitar and run a jack out the treble side of the lower bout.

I've also seen people just dangle a cord through the f hole with a jack mounted inline.

The single mic is popular at bluegrass venues. It works moderately well if the crowd is quiet, you work well behind the mains and don't use floor monitors. Better mics are definitely in order, but you sure don't have to go top of the line. A $300 one will do a good job.