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  #1  
Old 07-10-2010, 09:49 AM
themachinist themachinist is offline
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Unhappy Guitar sounds as shrills as nails on a chalkboard!

Hello All,

I just wondered if any of you have any tips:

The Story

I recorded a little project of mine with very worn in strings (nearly dead in my mind). Whilst I liked the warm woody sound I decided to record them all again with a new set of strings and the same close-mic setup. I've listened to the new recordings back a few times and they are so shrill it literally hurts one's ears! I had played on these new strings a couple hours to get rid of the "zing" that a new set normally has, so I don't really get why the recordings sound so terrible.

The Question

Is there something I'm doing wrong? I do quite a close (4-5 inches) stereo mic setup with a large diaphragm point at the body just below the bridge and a small pencil condenser pointing at the 12th fret. I record the stereo track into Audition with the mics hard panned to left and right.

Is there a way to get rid of the shrillness afterwards, with EQing or something?
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  #2  
Old 07-10-2010, 06:35 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Post a link to the recording you are talking about.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:58 PM
themachinist themachinist is offline
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Here's an example of one of them - http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...bandID=1074182

It's the first tune entitled "Disappearing Floor"
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:21 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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They sounded pretty good to me and although the third tune "Immersed..." was a bit harsh sounding the other two sounded fine. Make sure your playback system is not to bright sounding and misleading you.

Just experiment some more with mike positions and you should be there. Also try the LD mike on the neck and the the SD mike on the body
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:53 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Well I gave a listen on my Adam Audio studio monitors. I agree the recordings are "thin" with too much room/effect or reverb and not enough warmth.

Good news, nice playing, that's a lot harder to fix than moving mikes around and you don't need it!!

I agree with Rik, try swapping the mikes and vary distances. I have headphones on long cords so I can move the mikes, listen then and there through the headphones, stop if I'm happy move things aournd if I'm not.

I don't think your recordings sound as bad as you do, just need some warmth and tweaking. Good Luck!
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Old 07-11-2010, 03:25 PM
themachinist themachinist is offline
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As always, I'm very grateful for the help guys! I had never thought once of trying to switch the mics around, I'll try that before I try putting them further away from the guitar. I'll post my "album project" on the Show and Tell when it's done for all your listening enjoyment (hopefully)
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:48 AM
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Could be the mics and preamps as well. What do you have?

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:40 AM
themachinist themachinist is offline
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Hey Ty,

The mics are both from SE Electronics: An SE2200a Large Condenser and an SE1 Small condenser.

They go into an audio interface called a "Focusrite Saffire 6 USB", which has built in preamps - Then into the laptop with Audition. The laptops fairly powerful and new.

What do you reckon?

Sean
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Old 07-12-2010, 12:24 PM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Sean,

transferring the files to my studio computer for a better listen........

I really like "Disappearing Floor." Sounds like a consonant and melodic John Fahey. I don't hear nails on chalkboard here. It is bright, but I have recorded brighter.

"It is Hard" also not really bright here, but there is an edge. (tuned down?)

"Immersed In Sprinklers" Are those sprinklers hissing in the background or do you have the HF jacked up? This one's really edgy and the HF of the reverb isn't helping. Some of the slack string buzzes aren't either.

Great playing and very nice compositions! Good for you!

1. Maybe wait two more days before recording to let the strings burn in.

2. If these are light strings, try medium.

3. Not a high frequency response thing, but I do hear the multiple mics and the space. Have someone else play your guitar in a manner similar to the way you do. Stick a finger in one ear and listen with the other. Move around in front of the guitar and listen for the lobe or lobes of sound coming off the face. Stick one mic there and move it in some to get more LF response.

4. I don't know those mics, but a whole slew of chinese mics have nasty little edges that some people first hear as "bright", but later realize are edgy.

The mic I'm specing for people with not much money is this one:
http://www.pssl.com/MXL-SP1-Condense...hone-With-Clip

It's not overly bright. I don't make a thing off it if you buy one. I was quite surprised by it when a friend sent me one asking if he was nuts or did it sounds a lot better than it should for the price. I replied "yes" to both.

Of, and are your monitors telling you the truth?

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:08 PM
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Disappearing Floor sounds OK to me. I like that timbre overall although there doesn't seem to be much bass end.

Sprinklers must have been recorded with a pretty strong EQ boost on the treble? There's no way that could be a natural sound, at least to my ears.

On my guitar bridge & below sounds really nasty. It seems to emphasise a kind of mid-range crunchiness and it's not pleasant at all. Try pointing the LDC straight into the soundhole. Proximity effect will boost the bass a little, which can sometimes be good if you're recording a bass riff, but move back a bit if you need to.

The other mic can be aimed at the neck/body joint to pick up some higher frequencies then mix the sound you want. I think the warm tones from the soundhole part of the sound field could be what you're missing.

That's what I'd start with but really you have to test every possible combination you can think of. I find a head mic (at or near your ear) can often sound quite good.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:42 AM
themachinist themachinist is offline
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@Ty - Thanks for all the advice mate, and the words of praise! In the case of "Immersed In Sprinklers" I completely overdid the EQing and have hopefully learnt a strong lesson from it. I was most worried about "Disappearing Floor", I think from now on the only effects I'll use is a slight bass roll-off and occasionally (when suited) a reverb that's almost invisible.

In terms of monitors I haven't really got any decent speakers - just my laptop so I plug a moderate pair of large studio style headphones into it. Guess it's not the most ideal way to do things, but I'm a Jobseeker
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  #12  
Old 07-14-2010, 05:26 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Sean,

Best of luck with the job seeking. There's a lot of that going on over here as well. You probably can't make a house payment by busking, but you may be able to buy food.

Are you a machinist by trade? Maybe reinvent the capo.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old 07-16-2010, 07:51 AM
themachinist themachinist is offline
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Hehe, unfortunately not a Machinist by trade, it's from a movie called The Machinist. I'm on the dole here, so busking could make me some beer money at least
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  #14  
Old 07-18-2010, 10:03 PM
Dark Eyed Junko Dark Eyed Junko is offline
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It sounds to me like a combination of room and mic placement. I would pull the mic back a couple inches and add absorbers to the room (or change spots in the room to record). My ears may be deceiving me, but I think I'm hearing a touch of flutter echo, which is making everything a little harsh.
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