Aloha Doug - VM1 vs. CMC641?

[alohachris]

Aloha Doug,

I'd love to hear the story behind your acquisition of a Brauner VM1. Or is that plural? Did you somehow come into a pair of them, or were the tax returns just a tad higher this year? What's the story?

What a great sounding mic on acoustic guitar! So natural. How does it compare to the CMC641? Qualitative differences? Tell us about that mic!

You must be living right, brah!

All the best & A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Doug,
I'd love to hear the story behind your acquisition of a Brauner VM1.

Hey Chris. I've been fascinated with this mic for a while, after trying one out a few years ago, and came across a pair of demos that I could get for a good price. I actually started dreaming about a stereo VM1 - I mentioned in another thread that I really liked the stereo image of some stereo mics, and I had a discussion with Muriel Anderson where she raved about her stereo VM1. But the only way to get one of those is with a custom order, so there was no real way to try one out. So when I saw two VM1 demos, I thought it was worth a try.

One's the full VM1, the other's a VM1-lite, which just means it has a power supply that only supports omni and cardiod, and it's cheaper! Otherwise, the mics are identical, and the pair makes a nice flexible combination, since I can also do MS with the full VM1 in figure 8.

How do they compare to the Schoeps? It's a close call, and it's pretty hard to make a rational case for one or the other. I think I posted this comparison here back when I first got them. Simultaneous recording of each, played back to back, Brauner's first, then the schoeps, raw tracks with no EQ, reverb, etc. The mics were as close to the same placement as I could physically get them.

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/m...er_Schoeps.wav

My very unscientific impression is that the Schoeps sound great, but usually leave me wanting to tweak the EQ just a bit, while the Brauner's sound ready to print. Of course this all depends on lots of things, and I could imagine the opposite being true based on the tune or the guitar, or... Listening to the recording above, I'd be pretty hard pressed to choose one over the other.

I also have this also highly debatable idea that the Brauner's are less picky about placement. I often spend ages with the Schoeps finding the magic spot that I like, while the Brauner's are pretty much pop them up anywhere in reason and they just sound great. It's almost unnerving because I can't delay actually recording by spending hours trying to find the right placement :-) This is all relative, because the Schoeps also sound great in most positions, and seem less picky than some lesser mics.

I haven't been as happy with the Brauners in X/Y or MS, tho. The Schoeps just seem to work better for that, possibly due to the size and inability to place the Brauners really close together. (The stereo version in a single case might solve that...) So I always end up using the Brauners as spaced pairs.

Of course, the Brauners are a little more hassle to work with, heavy, with special mounts, special cords, and separate power supplies. You need to let the tunes warm up a bit and so on. I got some ankle weights to put on the mic stands so they don't tip over.

These certainly aren't a casual purchase, but with mics in this league, I don't think of it as much as spending money as just moving money around. Brauners are pricier now than they used to be, and that will probably continue, so I could probably at least come close to getting my money back if I ever needed to sell them. Same with the Schoeps, of course. With the recent Schoeps price increases, I could probably sell those for more than I paid for them pretty easily.

In any case, both are overkill for a home studio :-) but I like to be sure my gear is better than I am, so I have no excuses.

[rick-slo]

The money pit of recording gear.
As recorded the Brauners are warmer and beefier in the mids. Both are of course very nice sounding mikes.
Don't know if I could handle dealing with the Brauner power supply and the warm up period though.

[alohachris]

Aloha & Mahalo, Doug,

Thanks for the inside scoop and story. Plus the link was great.

I love that line "equipment that's better than I am."

That's probably more true for me, in terms of my playing abilities, but my ears are my curse - they hear small differences.

I love my Schoeps, but am always curious. A Brauner will probably never be able to be heard anywhere in the Aloha State, I'm afraid. As always, thanks for sharing great info and Aloha with us all.

Mahalo A Nui!

alohachris

[KevWind]

Doug hey thought Id let you know that after and because of your posts and samples on another thread I started looking into the Schopes line. Because I am currently in the Boulder Co. area I was able to audition 5 mics this last week in an actual studio live room and ended up ordering a single Schoeps CMC6 body and an MK4 cap. for my acoustic gtr mic. In general and purly subjective I found Schoeps to have a bit more of a shall I say, balanced and smooth yet detailed sound. I am looking forward to recording with it when I get back to Wy. in a few weeks !! Thanks Kev

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Doug hey thought Id let you know that after and because of your posts and samples on another thread I started looking into the Schopes line. Because I am currently in the Boulder Co. area I was able to audition 5 mics this last week in an actual studio live room and ended up ordering a single Schoeps CMC6 body and an MK4 cap. for my acoustic gtr mic. In general and purly subjective I found Schoeps to have a bit more of a shall I say, balanced and smooth yet detailed sound. I am looking forward to recording with it when I get back to Wy. in a few weeks !! Thanks Kev

Let me know how you like that mic once you get it, will you Kev? What have you been using up to now?

The Workshop with Ronin starts this Monday. I'm pretty excited.

Jim

[Doug Young]

Hope you enjoy the mic. "Smooth" is a good word for the Shoeps!

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Doug hey thought Id let you know that after and because of your posts and samples on another thread I started looking into the Schopes line. Because I am currently in the Boulder Co. area I was able to audition 5 mics this last week in an actual studio live room and ended up ordering a single Schoeps CMC6 body and an MK4 cap. for my acoustic gtr mic. In general and purly subjective I found Schoeps to have a bit more of a shall I say, balanced and smooth yet detailed sound. I am looking forward to recording with it when I get back to Wy. in a few weeks !! Thanks Kev

Schoeps prices decreased effective June 10, 2010.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Schoeps prices decreased effective June 10, 2010.

thanks, yes , the price was lower than I had previously thought. I got the set with the mic, elastic mount and capsule in a wooden box.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by runamuck

Let me know how you like that mic once you get it, will you Kev? What have you been using up to now?

The Workshop with Ronin starts this Monday. I'm pretty excited.

Jim

Yes indeed I'll do that. It will be a few weeks yet, as I'm still in Co. remodeling my daughters condo.

P.S. I have been recording acoustic gtr with a Shure KSM 44

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Hope you enjoy the mic. "Smooth" is a good word for the Shoeps!

Thanks, I believe I will.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by KevWind

thanks, yes , the price was lower than I had previously thought. I got the set with the mic, elastic mount and capsule in a wooden box.

Great mics - on my short list for the best on the planet.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by KevWind

...

P.S. I have been recording acoustic gtr with a Shure KSM 44

With the Shure and KSM44 together you have a nice mid-side rig.

Fran

[fitness1]

I'd never heard of the Brauner....after looking it up on the net, I know why (twice what I paid for my first car!!!) -

My skills and recording equipment certainly wouldn't warrant that!!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by fitness1

I'd never heard of the Brauner....after looking it up on the net, I know why (twice what I paid for my first car!!!)

Its funny how our early car experiences shape our value systems. I remember as a kid asking my dad what a car cost, and he told me a good one would run $3000 (those were the days :-). To this day, I tend to semi-consciously apply that metric to cars. A new $30K car is 10X what it should be, etc. I sort of have my personal multiple that I'm willing to pay, and it's way below 10X :-)

With guitar gear, I think you have to have a little different perspective. One guy I know says it takes a mic that costs the same as the guitar you're recording to capture it. I've heard others say your whole signal chain should cost about the same as the guitar to do it justice. Both silly claims with no real foundation, but it does always strike me as odd that we'll often pay thousands of dollars for a guitar and then want to record that into a $100 mic, or play it thru a $100 pickup into a $400 amp. If you believe at all in the weakest link, it's worth at least considering the quality of everything along the signal path. The differences at various price points are subtle, of course, and you don't always get what you pay for. More importantly, nothing says great music can't be recorded on cheaper gear, any more than you need an expensive guitar to make good music. But if you think of mics, amps, pickups, etc compared to the price of the guitar and give them an equal role in the sound production process, the price of good ones doesn't seem so out of line if you have a use for them.

By the way, you can easily spend far more on mics than the Brauners cost! Serious mics make guitars seem cheap.